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Induction cooking or gas

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Started 11 years ago by swanning_it
Latest reply from edzylzaid

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swanning_it
Member

We've already bought an induction cooktop (not installed yet), so I suppose this post is bit late, but on another thread a comment was made about gas being preferred over electric.

I'm wondering if anyone has life experience in induction cooking? We've been to induction cooking demonstrations and have seen induction boil water far quicker than gas. We're not gas fans, so it was a no brainer for us, but I'm now wondering if induction is actually more efficient than gas given the quicker heating times?

BTW, we do not have reticulated gas in our suburb and exchange bottles is a right PITA. We actually got rid of the gas cooking that we had and we do not have any other gas equipment.

Posted Thursday 21 Oct 2010 @ 7:51:12 pm from IP #
PeterReefman
Member

Good question, and this is on my mind as I'm currently putting some info together on it.

I'm just starting, but so far have some interesting info on the benefits of induction electric cooking.

* Gas cooking is generally only 20-30% efficient, as most of the heat does not absorb into the cooking pan/dish.
* Induction is 80-90% efficient as the heating mechanism IS the cooking pan/dish.
* Gas requires oxygen to operate, while releasing Nitrogen Oxide. So reduces air quality, and because of this requires the kitchen area to have extra ventilation which may have heating/cooling impacts.
* Gas cooking will also increase the room temperature, which will increase artificial cooling needs during summer (This will be offset by helping out in winter, but air quality/ventilation is impacted as mentioned above)
* Both safety and cleaning is much better with induction cooktops.
* Induction is far more suited to a 100% renewable energy economy, as the reliance of natural gas for cooking means we need this fossil fuel to be extracted, refined, and distributed across Australia. (Onsite methane generation from domestic waste does not create enough gas).

I also have an induction coktop at home and think it's very good. But some bad points from my own use are:
* While cleaning is very easy with touch-pad controls, the actual buttons are pretty fiddly to operate - Knobs would still be better I think.
* The cooktop was quite expensive - Costs need to come down.
* Electricity sources of course are critical - While onsite generation is best the logistics of cooking/solar mean direct power is difficult, and grid-based electricty will be used, which in most cases will be produced in coal-fired power stations. We need to make sure we subscribe to 100% green energy to make sure any power we pull from the grid for cooking (or anything else) is supporting renewables rather than coal.

Hope that helps, and anyone else with comments and (especially) references would be great.

Posted Thursday 21 Oct 2010 @ 9:33:44 pm from IP #
dymonite69
Member

That's pretty much how I see it. But due to the relative low cost of NG, the difference in efficiencies don't translate into a major difference in running cost. You also have to throw out your copper pots.

I think that induction probably will be the way of the RE future when costs come down.

The current domestic cooktops are no more powerful than gas ones. However, I have seen commercial wok versions that are equivalent in power to the ones seen in Asian restaurants.

The issue with waste gases is not so important since you should be using a proper rangehood if you have a powerful cooktop.

Posted Thursday 21 Oct 2010 @ 10:21:02 pm from IP #
termite
Member

Because most induction burners are flat, this does not suit wok cooking. I have seen a fancy wave-shaped steel frame that purports to be suitable for cooking with a wok on an induction element. It only has 3 points of contact, so I don't know how effective it is - does it set up a magnetic field in the metal of the wok itself?
Only two cookers that I have seen include a dish-shaped depression, suitable for a wok - one of them is Smeg - and I gather that cooktop is in the mid $4k price range - too pricey for me!
Note that all your dishes/pots will need to be made of ferrous metal (or some other rare earth magnetic metal) or they simply won't conduct the magnetic field. There go my copper-based pots!
I agree with the buttons - too inflexible in temperature control - knobs are vital.

I note Highland has a combination gas+induction cooktop, which will probably be the sort of thing that I will end up with, but then I have access to natural gas. Gold Coast is probably like Brisbane - only bottled gas for most, which truly IS a PITA.

Posted Friday 22 Oct 2010 @ 5:50:07 am from IP #
dymonite69
Member

The commercial wok version wasn't a Euro appliance, it was made in Hong Kong - and I would expect it would be expensive. I recall between 5-7 kW. Domestic is around 2.2 kW max.

Posted Friday 22 Oct 2010 @ 10:10:01 am from IP #
PeterReefman
Member

Choice recently did a good comparison of induction cooktops and compared them to other cooktops.

http://www.choice.com.au/Reviews-and-Tests/Household/Kitchen/Ovens-and-cooktops/Induction-Cooktops-review-and-compare/page/Introduction%20cooktop.aspx

http://www.choice.com.au/Reviews-and-Tests/Household/Kitchen/Ovens-and-cooktops/Cooktops-buying-guide/Page/Introduction.aspx

Posted Friday 22 Oct 2010 @ 12:49:53 pm from IP #
swanning_it
Member

Thanks all, seems we've chosen correctly. The cooktop we chose is a three "burner" model from Miele as we never use more than 3 burners at a time. It comes with auto pot detection and pot size detection so we hope it does the trick. Admittably, we've had a number of Miele products and failures do happen and are expensive, so I hope we've made the right choice of brand. Price was around the $2500 mark so it's not cheap but all our cookware is stainless with ferrous bases, so we're right there.

No wok burner on this model. But I guess we can do as we do now......use the electric wok or the side burner on the BBQ!

Posted Friday 22 Oct 2010 @ 10:38:34 pm from IP #
sanctuarymiss
Member

Has anyone had any experience with the Induction Cooking pots and pans, do they save on electricity/gas as they claim?

Posted Saturday 23 Oct 2010 @ 6:27:01 am from IP #
dymonite69
Member

Before you think that you are getting a lot of energy wins with your cooking appliances, you need to put this in perspective.

If you are simmering something on a cooktop or using a slow cooker the energy use is less than 1MJ per hour i.e. 1.4c/hr

Cooking something in the oven at max temp might need 3.6MJ/hr = 5c/hour

If you were doing high temp wok cooking it would consume 15 MJ/hr = 20c/hr (but usually it only involves cooking for 10-15 minutes).

An energy efficient house consumes about 40MJ/day of heating or cooling per year and 20MJ/day on heating water.

Posted Saturday 23 Oct 2010 @ 12:22:28 pm from IP #
Garry
Member

I had a gas top and changed to induction top with four places. The best move I ever did, its super fast for boiling, efficient and the control is as good as gas. I would never go back to gas or standard electric.

Garry

Posted Monday 25 Oct 2010 @ 6:24:19 am from IP #
Jeffbloggs
Member

Garry
I agree, induction cooking is far superior. Our unit utilizes accurate pot temperature control and fast heating start-ups, with auto pot content detection, which allows for overall faster cooking times and less burnt food. Add thermal cookware like this and you can cut energy consumption in half again: http://www.thermalcookware.com add .au for aussie site. They obviously also work on gas cook tops also.
Plus this cookware is more convenient and the food tastes better etc. if properly done.

Please note: Only ferrous cookware works with induction ie if a magnet sticks it will work. Many SS cookwares have solid iron cores in their base as iron/steel is 3x better than SS as a heat conductor. Also gas cook tops are less efficient than electric cook tops (by about 30%) but the lower cost of NG will make gas cooking more cost effective. Also the induction cooktop does not introduce much more heat, nor any hydrocarbon emissions to the kitchen atmosphere. There are however possible electrosmog concerns, similar to those using a microwave.

BTW anyone interested in buying a relatively good induction cooker can find them here starting from $299: http://www.graysonline.com/retail/zlic680634/new-touch-control-induction-cooktop-australia-s-cheapest

Posted Monday 25 Oct 2010 @ 6:55:50 am from IP #
bundy
Member

JeffBloggs - Re the GraysOnline "Induction" cooktops. Looking at the picture I think they may be in fact Ceramic Cooktops and not Induction at all. Even the description says - New 580mm Frameless Ceramic Touch Control Induction Cooktop.

Ceramic Glass Cooktops are a lot cheaper than proper Induction cooking and this looks like a case of incorrect advertising to me. I could be wrong but someone once told me "If it seems to good to be true it usually is" Graysonline might be pulling a swifty.

Posted Monday 25 Oct 2010 @ 7:27:32 am from IP #
Jeffbloggs
Member

Bundy
Never had a problem with Graysonline so far with dozens of successful transactions so far. They are also the official retailer for sony and hp seconds/runouts direct from the manufacturer, and I have picked up a few of these gems ie 55" lcd sony 100hz for $1300. They are an off-shoot of one of the biggest auction houses in AU, have 400 people employed in Aus and have quite a reputation to uphold. http://www.graysonline.com/aboutus/default.aspx
They have been selling the induction cooktops for over 3 months now. BTW ceramic refers to the glass surface on both standard heating element and induction element cooktops.
Besides their tech specs describe the device, and they'd be up for false advertising by now for sure.

Also induction cooking is not a black art, nor as expensive a technology as normal retailers make out. Even the $80 I once bought at a camping show is still working after 2 years of intermittent use and abuse in the workshop(even after a series of modifications/rebuilds!) They simply employ an alternating eddy field created by a tesla coil, to produce heat in the ferrous pot base. Most of the cost is in the power electronics to regulate and oscillate the induced field in the pot so that it creates heat. Also this makes it relatively simple to incorporate temp control, contents detection, and the good old pot detection...which is really a duh! function, as it can't produce an eddy current without the ferrous material on it in the first place, as the "circuit" is incomplete. Another duh! function is that the ceramic surface of the cooktop remains cool to the touch and only gets warm from the heat of the pot, which is mostly still cool with short cooking times. A standard element cooktop, ceramic or round disc type, simply have a big electrical resistor underneath that provides the heat instead.

Posted Monday 25 Oct 2010 @ 8:01:06 am from IP #
bundy
Member

Hi Jeffblogs - I agree and have purchased myself from Grays and never had an issue either. I have sent them an email asking for a Model # and confirmation of the specs. Will see what they come back with. Like you say may be legit and they are reputable, but having looked for Cooktops (both Induction and Cermaic Electric) in depth lately the price just seems too good to be true.

When you compare it to an item they previously promoted as "Touch Control Ceramic Cooktop" ie Old style element with Cermaic top its amazingly cheap for induction irregardless of brand - http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0004-2102640/smeg-90cm-touch-control-ceramic-cooktop-model-sa911xa

Posted Monday 25 Oct 2010 @ 10:55:43 pm from IP #
bundy
Member

UPDATE - Just got a reply from Grays -

Please be advised that the above item is actually an induction cooktop with ceramic touch control available in it. This cooktop is an imported item and unfortunately we are unable to provide the manufacturer's details or the model number.

There is a 12 months warranty available for this cooktop but we are unable to provide the warranty details prior to purchase of the item.

Take that as you may but I am still very sceptical. I Have seen many posts on Ebay for "Induction cooktops" Only to read on that they are in fact Glass topped ceramic elements. I dont intend to shell out the $299 to test this but I just cant see it being True indiction it needs a dedicated 30Amp (or higher) power Circuit. It Wont get hot to touch when on. Will have Auto shut off when a Pan is removed from the cooking surface etc etc. None of these things Grays could confirm.

I Googled for "Ceramic Touch Control" and nothing about Induction cooktops. All about traditional glass topped ceramic elements

Posted Monday 25 Oct 2010 @ 11:22:44 pm from IP #
swanning_it
Member

Also be a bit careful about small quantity import items. Cooktops are prescribed electrical equipment in all Australian states and Territories and as such must, by law, have an appliance approval number issued by one of the Australian jurisdictions. Typically, the testing required to achieve this can be many thousands of dollars so it usually means it's not financially achievable for small volumes. Grays may have done this, but may not have also. If they are unprepared to release brand details, I'd be assuming they are just Chinese imports......may well be compliant, may not be too!

They are also required to be C-Tick certified for EMI compliance.

Ask for the Australian compliance number, if in doubt.
http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/fair-and-safe-work/electrical-safety/business-and-industry/manufacturers-importers-and-retailers/requirements-for-selling-electrical-equipment/prescribed-electrical-equipment/marking-of-prescribed-electical-equipment

Posted Tuesday 26 Oct 2010 @ 1:40:36 am from IP #
Jeffbloggs
Member

Hey Bundy
According to my logic, and that I already own a cheap single burner China for $80 that works well, a 4 burner one should really only cost 4 x $80 = $320 - some common components, power supply, case etc, less overall components, lower manufacturing costs will easily bring it down to $299, and Grays will still be selling them at 100% profit...ie I doubt if they cost them $99, seeing that they are selling them at that price including freight. Chk out American pricing if you want to find out what things really cost.
In regards to your discussion with Grays, I think you got somebody without a clue what they were talking about. Which is not hard considering the diverse amount of products they sell. "Ceramic Touch Control"? Sounds like they were reading from a Chinese manual... The ceramic is only the glass surface as I previously explained. "Touch control" are capacitive buttons under this glass. I'll buy one and let you know if it's any good.

Posted Tuesday 26 Oct 2010 @ 1:55:39 am from IP #
cooker
Member

I just read the thread 3 years later very occasionally. For me, induction cooktop is the best cooker compared with gas and normal electric stoves. Here is a source clearly specify the advantages and ugly things of using induction cooktop: http://www.ibestinduction.com/

Posted Friday 7 Feb 2014 @ 3:10:28 pm from IP #
John P
Member

Induction cooktops are low energy but high power.
Gas cooking is culturally popular but generates GHG emissions and the running costs are soon to rise because of LNG sales OS.
We are 'off grid' so a high powered induction cooktop was ruled out to respect the inverter. Instead, we use a range electrical cooking appliances which are quite cheap in capital terms and very cheap to run because the electricity is free.
We have a gas cooker in the kitchen but in five years it has never been used.

Posted Friday 7 Feb 2014 @ 10:55:25 pm from IP #
Morbo
Member

depends where your energy comes from. Using 85% browncoal in VIC the emissions will be the same. Remember, if lucky 30% of the chemical energy of coal end up as electic anergy at you meter. So the pot uses 30 or so % of the chemical energy of the gas. Pretty much even?
If you regularly burn your steamed vegies, yes, the gas does not have a sensor for that.
Cooking and eating hot food on a 40 deg day, I am refraining from that. So gas heating up the room, rather not. But seems there are people that still want to have their weekly roast during a heatwave.
My summer gas bill is $1 per month consumption wise. Salad is not just lean on bills...
If you have clean energy, yes, induction wins. And it does not mind warped pots. Easier to clean and fast. But as I said, in VIC gas may be the cleaner energy. Plus I could simmer things on a flame not much bigger than a candle.

Posted Saturday 8 Feb 2014 @ 12:27:34 am from IP #
aussiesue
Member

John P,I am considering replacing my stove when I go "off grid" soon. I am interested to know what "range of electrical cooking appliances" you use and your criteria for selecting them.

Posted Thursday 13 Feb 2014 @ 10:06:06 pm from IP #
aussiesue
Member

John P., I should add to my above post...and how big is your inverter (as I am also about to make that decision and cooking seems to be the biggest dterminant.)

Posted Thursday 13 Feb 2014 @ 10:08:11 pm from IP #
projects
Member

Choice Magazine offers there recent review of induction cooktops

http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/household/kitchen/ovens-and-cooktops/induction-cooktops-review-and-compare.aspx

Posted Saturday 15 Feb 2014 @ 8:21:09 pm from IP #
projects
Member

here is a quote from the above Choice article.

"The sales talk highlights their efficiency and cost savings, but when compared to ceramic cooktops, there weren’t any savings over the same period of time. Given that it boils water in seconds, not using the cooktop as long may save a little money if you replace your electric cooktop with an induction".

Posted Saturday 15 Feb 2014 @ 8:30:08 pm from IP #
Greg
Member

Wonder if this discussion will be about magnetic cooling fridges in a few years ?

Posted Sunday 16 Feb 2014 @ 12:10:09 am from IP #
Bushwalker
Member

We use LPG for the hotplates, never been happy with electric but induction does sound like it might be a useful alternative.

I suspect induction might be the cooktop of choice for aged people and people with disabilities though. Reduced risk of accidental gas leaks and less chance of burning the operator.

Any running cost savings would be way less than the increased initial capital cost.

BW

Posted Sunday 16 Feb 2014 @ 1:28:54 am from IP #
Greg C
Member

You will never regret using induction. The control of gas but far more efficient. Less heat escaping into the house where it is not wanted. Plus the ability to not generate any greenhouse gasses with your cooking if you use 100% green power or cook when the sun is shining if you have solar PV

Posted Sunday 16 Feb 2014 @ 10:36:54 am from IP #
cremorne121
Member

We are planning to purchase a two element induction cooktop, for a small simple kitchen renovation. But they all seem to be almost as expensive as a four element. Any tips on a supplier for a two element model? Any particular features we should look for?

Posted Monday 17 Feb 2014 @ 7:23:18 am from IP #
janeymax
Member

my sister has an 2 burner induction cooktop and added a gas ring to use with a wok she has since begun to use a flat bottomed wok on the induction plate and regrets haveing the gas instead of another induction plate. She is a great cook

Posted Saturday 1 Mar 2014 @ 4:15:55 am from IP #
JJ
Member

I went induction about 6 years ago. In my time I've had all varieties, Gas, Halogen and bog standard hotplate. Induction is a county mile better than all other alternatives. Sure, knobs might be a bit more tactile but the 'one wipe' flat surface is so easy to keep clean then I'll live with this downside.

One other advantage you may want to consider is getting a stove top kettle. If it has a nice large base then sit it on the large ring and it boils in about half the time of a 2kw kettle. Also, it saves on buying kettles and releases a bit of worktop real estate!

BTW I used TEKA cooktop and oven. Less expensive in Au as it is not recognised brand. IMHO it is the same as Miele. Google them and take a look (I am not affiliated with them!)

Cheers
Simon

Posted Tuesday 1 Apr 2014 @ 5:22:48 am from IP #

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