Hills Esteem II issues « Alternative Technology Assn Forums

Alternative Technology Assn Forums » Energy

Hills Esteem II issues

(37 posts) (16 voices)

Started 8 years ago by JohnMN
Latest reply from Laurence Stonard

Tags:

12 Next »

JohnMN
Member

We've had this system, with 30 evacuated tubes on the roof, for 2.5 years now. When it is good it is great, but I've always thought it used far too much (electric) boost most of the year.

Recently we have noticed that the circulation pump is sometimes running late at night! There's no frost, so it can't be about defrosting.

Now that the distributor has folded, and Hills Solar likewise, I'm looking into trying to understand the darn thing better. There has never been any sort of technical manual available that I could find, and the official service has to come from over 100km away!

So I'm wondering, can anyone help me find out how the circulation pump is controlled, as well as other configuration issues, so I can have a look into this?

Thanks for any assistance.

Posted Wednesday 29 May 2013 @ 6:59:48 am from IP #
Sunshine
Member

What's your overnight temperature? This is what I read so far...
"Freeze protection is incorporated into the Hills Solar controller. When the
temperature in the manifold drops to 4°C, the pump is turned on and when the
manifold temperature rises to 6°C, the pump is turned off."

Posted Wednesday 29 May 2013 @ 9:01:40 am from IP #
Lance
Key Master

This is a common prob with pump circulated SHW systems, the prob will be either a failed/disconnected/dislodged temperature sensor or a faulty or incorrectly programmed pump controller.

Normally you have tank and collector sensors and the pump controller looks at the various temps and turns on and off accordingly. The specifics vary, but the general idea is the same. You are best to find info on your specific controller, there's bound to be a manual online somewhere.

Posted Wednesday 29 May 2013 @ 9:34:33 am from IP #
JohnMN
Member

Sunshine:
The overnight temperature has only been as low as 5C or 6C when I've noticed this, so I don't think there's a frost/freeze problem.

Lance:
I'll keep looking for a manual, so far the links I've found have expired/gone away. This is already beginning to feel like an orphan product!

Thanks folks.

Posted Wednesday 29 May 2013 @ 10:29:17 am from IP #
Greg C
Member

Does your system have a one way valve in circuit. Our pumped system does. What is happening is warm water is thermosyphoning up through the collector, actually travelling in the reverse direction to the normal pumped flow. When the warm water reaches the collector the sensor there senses the warm water, warmer than the cold inlet which will be the water that was just in the collector and cooled by night radiation so it starts the pump.

There must be a non return or one way valve and you need to replace it

Posted Wednesday 29 May 2013 @ 11:30:43 am from IP #
JohnMN
Member

Interesting thought Greg D.
I'll look into it.
Thanks.

Posted Thursday 30 May 2013 @ 2:31:48 am from IP #
Superman1
Member

http://www.enviro-friendly.com/evacuated-tube-owners-manual-august2010.pdf
http://www.solarguys.com.au/documents/Hills_Solar_Technical_Manual.pdf

Didn't you get the hard manual with install, John?
The technical manual seems to be the newer version with indicator lights on the controller.
But it still hasn't got what I want - the manifold temp sensor location and procedure.

Posted Wednesday 5 Jun 2013 @ 7:38:51 am from IP #
amun-ra
Member

lead will be near the hot return side on the manifold if red controller light is flashing
test lead and replace if needed

Posted Wednesday 5 Jun 2013 @ 8:46:15 pm from IP #
yabbietol
Member

I am sorry to hear about the problems people are having with these overly complex solar hot water systems, a couple of years ago I got a quote to replace my then 12 year old under performing flat panel Edwards solar hot water system, which has always under performed since new in winter, but has got worse. Due to the high quote of $5K and major changes to my plumbing layout from Hills I got my Edwards serviced ($200) with new glycol and a new pressure relief valve put in and put up with its very poor winter performance.
Since then I have looked at Run on sun tube systems which seem to be what I need, but due to health reasons I am not able to install one myself and cannot find a local plumber who even knows what I am talking about with solar hot water systems they seem to be stuck on very expensive and complex hills and apricus type systems.The run on sun systems are free of pumps and controllers, use thermo syphon and could simply replace my under performing flat panel system with minimal plumbing changes.
The original attraction of my Edwards system was no pumps simple design, unfortunately in my area it needed to have glycol to stop it from freezing. The glycol has always been a concern as the water heater is on my roof which also collects my drinking water.The flat panels are also loosing their black coating and becoming silver and reflective, which is not good after only 14 years. Before I became ill I opened one panel up and painted it black (with automative flat black spray can from super cheap). this gave some marginal improvement, but removing the glass was difficult and I was not sure about doing the other panel, the risk of glass breakage seemed too high. I then got a quote from Edwards about new flat panels which was really expensive, they quoted $1500 per panel supplied (not installed) so $3000. For that amount I could a whole newa run on sun system for less than the cost of two panels.

Do you have any suggestions on what to do about replacing my existing Edwards system. Due to ill health I am looking at a new fully installed system and I have a budget of about $3000. I would prefer themo syphon with no moving parts or pumps and able to use my existing plumbing layout from my Edwards. I would also like no glycol on my roof and I am unimpressed with Edwards collectors performance and the fact their coatings fail. Solar hart appear no better but have glass lined tanks and have a sacrificial anode which I would not want. I live in a cold winter climate at 800m outside Queanbeyan ,NSW.

Sorry I am not trying to hijack this discussion I did genuinely consider a Hills system but had concerns about cost and complexity which this discussion has confirmed. So any suggestions on what system to get now and does any one know a good suppler and installer in the Queanbeyan Goulburn or ACT area.

Posted Thursday 6 Jun 2013 @ 11:31:41 pm from IP #
Michelle T
Member

Hi yabbietol & all,

Also not wanting to hijack this topic from JohnMN, I will post a new topic under "which solar hot water system is best?" presently. I too have questions for the brains trust

Posted Friday 7 Jun 2013 @ 1:09:56 am from IP #
Superman1
Member

In response to AMUN-RA.
Thanks. I see where the wire goes in, in the senosr port.
I'm sure the wire is ok. Surely test the sensor is best. Somehow.
If replacement is required, do you know what the HILLS roof one is? Is it a 10k thermistor?
And I know to use thermal paste and high temp silicon. Thanks to APRICOTS, no thanks to HILLS as usual with their lack of info.

Posted Friday 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:37:27 am from IP #
amun-ra
Member

hey sup set multi to ohms and test lead must disconect first. if open circuit replace lead with new. not sure what hills used but they should still have parts available as they sold many units sure by law they have to make parts available for some years ring them

Posted Monday 10 Jun 2013 @ 9:17:02 am from IP #
hateworkin
Member

My hills esteem is not quite 2 years old and the roof sensor has corroded and fell apart again, this will be the third one.
Hills is no help the installer is no longer working with hills at all and the new plumbers who are supposed to be helping are a rip off.
It is so easy to install a new one myself but noone will tell me what type to use 10k or another that might fit,
Please help me.

Posted Thursday 13 Jun 2013 @ 9:26:53 am from IP #
Superman1
Member

First, thankyou O GREAT EGYPT, AMUN-RA.
Am still awaiting my supernatural sensors and testing if I can.

hateworkin, I can't say I blame ya hate workin'. Similar to HILLS sensors and steam release valves. I'm lucky my roof sensor lasted one and half years.
After buying two types of 10K thermistors for 2 bux on ebay on the way, HILLS emailed back saying which Esteem of the 3 do you have? So apparently they may vary.
They are sending me a spare they had in the post, not saying what. And in future, ask RINNAI - which my tank is - for spares.

When mine arrives, I will post what. I have the beige box attached to tank, no lights no readouts (bugger) and worst of all - no rocket engine.

Posted Thursday 13 Jun 2013 @ 10:31:09 am from IP #
Solgen
Member

I have had a Hills system for 4.5 years which has operated without problems, but last year I replaced the controller with a Chinese unit, bought on EBay. It has been great, it provides an indoor readout as to what is going on ie. temperatures at the solar header, and top and bottom of tank and pump operation, it also allows you to program the pump operation (cut in and cut out temp) as well as many other features. It also comes with new sensors which to date have proved to be reliable. For less than $100, it was good value.

Posted Friday 14 Jun 2013 @ 7:15:02 am from IP #
Superman1
Member

Maybe in the older Sun God sensor, quality was better.
I've wanted one with an indoor readout, and programmable. Only way it should be.

But could you fit the new controller in the old controller box?
Did you have to do any modifying to attach it?
And my Rinnai tank has no facility for top sensor. Did yours?

Posted Friday 14 Jun 2013 @ 9:28:50 am from IP #
Solgen
Member

Superman1, I made a mistake and ordered the model that was not suitable for outdoors and so had to fit it inside another weatherproof box. However, they have a model designed for Australia which is weather proof complete with connecting leads, etc. I wished I had bought it instead.
My heater did not have a top sensor location and it is not necessary for operation, however, it is good to know what temp the tank is and so I just (carefully!) drilled through the wall and insulation close to the top of the tank and installed the sensor so that it was against the wall of the tank. The sensor was coated with heat transfer paste as well. The sensor works reasonably well although I think it reads about 5 deg too low.

Posted Saturday 15 Jun 2013 @ 6:06:49 am from IP #
amun-ra
Member

You can buy sensor ports for retro fit systems dependent on your tank type

Posted Monday 17 Jun 2013 @ 1:16:36 am from IP #
Superman1
Member

Is that right? Thanks. Then my Hills system won't have such esteem issues.
...I just can't find them anywhere though, even eBay.

...I got my themistor from HILLS. Doesn't say, covered in heatshrink tube joined to wire.
Much bigger than the 10k ones on ebay that came too which have thinner wire.
So I'd get one that is only for Solar Hot Water, which my ebay's were not. On Amazon, or ebay they are probably cheaper.

Maybe thermowells is the name for those ports which are plenty.

Posted Monday 17 Jun 2013 @ 6:27:38 am from IP #
Superman1
Member

BOTTOM SENSOR WAS BLOWN
After waiting all winter, I was too scared to get up on the roof.
I tested the unplugged sensors and the top was about 11k, so 10k, same as my new ones.
But the bottom one was half that. I inserted my new one and the thing works now!
So I used my $2 ebay one for the bottom, in case my roof sensor fries in future.

AIR VENT
I just realized that useless air vent HILLS use on the roof manifold, which is not meant for this type of system but a closed one with glycol and not when its running but just for set up to rid it of air bubbles, was on top of that debacle apparently attached without the switch off valve that it comes with and is meant to be under it.
Mine leaked because it melted, and I ignorantly had it replaced for $200. I could switch the nuisance off when it dissolves if it was at least installed properly.☻

Posted Thursday 19 Sep 2013 @ 8:35:04 am from IP #
amun-ra
Member

As to the AVV just take it out and get a brass plug from bunnings??? bit of tape and a shifter and no more probs

Posted Friday 20 Sep 2013 @ 9:35:20 am from IP #
Superman1
Member

Thanks. Yeh I did think of that. Just seems I might get squirted with boiling water.

Posted Saturday 21 Sep 2013 @ 2:34:32 am from IP #
Solgen
Member

I have had a Hills 330l ETHWS for over 5 years and it has performed very well without any issues. I have replaced the original controller just so I could have better control over turn on temps, etc. However, I am interested in the operating parameters of these systems.
My Hills system has a small 25W pump which basically operates continuously while ever there is sufficient solar energy. The panels are relatively distant from the tank(7m horizontal and 2m vertical) and so there is a time lag in the hot water getting from the manifold to the tank.
Over Xmas I visited by inlaws in Glen Innes in NSW. They have an Apricus 330l system with the panels only about 3m from the tank. I noticed that there were some differences between our two systems in particular the Apricus had a much bigger pump(75W but with 3 selectable speeds). In operation it was continuously starting and stopping (ie. running for a couple of minutes and then stop, waiting for a short time while the manifold heated up and then starting again).
It seemed to me that each company had a different operating strategy, ie, either low flow rate and continuous operation or high flow rates and stop/start strategy. It seems to me that the Apricus strategy of a high flow rate would lessen the losses from the pipework but would use more power and possibly the high start/stop cycles might shorten the life of the pump. As to which is the best strategy could be debated!!
I would be interested to hear from others on this forum on how their ETHWS operate.

Posted Thursday 9 Jan 2014 @ 9:52:17 am from IP #
mordeeb
Member

Hello out their. Have just been reading comments about the Hills Esteem II system. I am an Electrical Contractor. I have recently had to deal with a faulty Apricus solar system. The top sensor in the delivery tube has burn't out.
Just to let you know, it is a Thermistor NTC and needs to be 5k ohms, or you system will run too hot and burn out the solar pump eventually, ie seals. ( NTC stands for negative temperature coefficient, thus when the temp goes up the resistance goes down and lets more current through).
The bottom sensor is a 4k7 ohm NTC Thermistor.
Technical manual from 'Solaguys.com.au'.
Hope this helps.

Posted Monday 20 Jan 2014 @ 8:42:18 pm from IP #
sun2steam
Member

My Apricus system (5 years old) has a 10 kohm NTC resistor at the collector. I know it because I had to replace the sensor when I ripped it apart when relocating the collector.
I replaced it with a cheap NTC resistor from China. It works fine. The only weird thing was using a soldering iron on top of my roof. It just felt wrong. - but it works.

Posted Monday 20 Jan 2014 @ 10:32:10 pm from IP #
mordeeb
Member

sun2steam, that's alright, at least its working. My new clients nearby have to manually turn on the pump to cycle the water until i can replace the sensor.
Basically, the installer of the system went bust, the company sold, the plumber went south, that was what i was told Sunday.
They engaged a plumber from 80 kms away to fix it. Didnt know i was local! Oh well. The plumber is trying to sell them a complete new sensor box.

Posted Monday 20 Jan 2014 @ 10:40:43 pm from IP #
J Morris
Member

Hi there, I been having the same problems and just replaced tank sensor. Seems to be working ok now but will keep monitoring.
I looked at the prices for replacement sensors (Hills) and almost fell over.
I use these sensors (in the aircond industry), they are allot cheaper and better quality.
Might be worth a try.
http://www.mamacsys.com/TE-703-704features.htm

Posted Saturday 1 Feb 2014 @ 5:43:22 am from IP #
hateworkin
Member

HI All
So finally got my roof sensor sorted and the system worked fine for 7 Months
BUT Now the pump is working as it should but the water coming back down to the tank from the roof is at best warm then after a minute or so it will get very hot to the point i cant hold the pipe then after 20 sec it goes back to warm water again and continues warm for a few minutes then the pump cuts out ???? then starts all over again.
I have just been on the roof but cant see any obvious issues with it other then the pressure valve thing is leaking a tiny bit?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards
John

Posted Wednesday 30 Jul 2014 @ 5:41:20 am from IP #
amun-ra
Member

That sounds like its working as it should I would not have a concern if it where my system.
when you turn on the hot tap do you get hot water???? if so what is your prob

Posted Wednesday 30 Jul 2014 @ 8:56:12 am from IP #
hateworkin
Member

The problem is water temp is only 45degs. This temp was taken from the manual valve at the top of the tank not at the hot water tap so i would have thought the temp would be much higher then 45deg in the storage tank?
The hot water runs out very quickly and never has previous 3 years.

Posted Thursday 31 Jul 2014 @ 5:23:36 am from IP #

RSS feed for this topic

12 Next »