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SAY 'NO' TO INEQUITABLE ACCESS FEES

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Started 11 years ago by Buzzman
Latest reply from Jeffbloggs

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Buzzman
Member

Hey, all!
Was going to post this on Syn's "Say No to Power Meters...." thread, but saw that while it was similar it was a bit off topic, so have started another thread to gauge reactions / uncover knowledge about the way Access Fees are charged.

My retailer, Country Energy in NSW, charges $0.8266 per day for Peak/Residential tariff (Residential Tariff 5700) and $0.07 per day for Off Peak (Controlled Load 1 Tariff 5701) for 'Service Availability' fees.

Over a normal 90 day quarterly account, this amounts to $74.39 + $6.30 = $80.69.

Given that I only use 6.4-6.6kW/day, the total usage charges on my last bill came to $122.19.

Usage charges + Access fees = $202.88

In other words, the Access fees form almost 40% of the total bill!!

As profligate energy users pay exactly the same access fees for the same period as we thrifty users, aren't we effectively subsidising the cost of all this new infrastructure that, really, the profligate users shoud be paying for, as it it they who require it?

Is this something that ATA has on its "argue with government" platform, or is it something we 'interested members of the community' should be doing a little jig of our own about?

Question: What proportion of the bill do you pay? [Be accurate and don't factor in GST, only usage charges and access fees]

Question: How do people feel about these ever-increasing "access fees" and is there, really, anything we can do about it?

BTW, and for the record, I have three meters (two peak, one OP) and am being charged 3 separate access fees. My total access fee last bill was actually $155.08 - or 76% of the total bill!!! Needless to say I am in the process of disputing this with CA and arguing for a refund.

Please add your comments, answers and thoughts.

Posted Sunday 19 Sep 2010 @ 4:12:06 am from IP #
matas
Member

Yes I wish they were lower and the usage rates higher.
Its the same for water and gas bills.
The majority of these bill amounts, for me, are fixed access fees.
If I could somehow cut my usage to zero, my bills would not be much lower.
There is no incentive to reduce your usage.

Posted Sunday 19 Sep 2010 @ 5:28:04 am from IP #
syn
Member

Hi Buzzman,
Why do you have 3 meters - especially for such a low usage?
I agree the access fee's are way way too high, there intention is to maintain basic operating profit but these chargers have been creeping up incredibily these past few years since privatisation. I am sure it was written into their confidential agreements with the government to introduce higher chargers after public acceptance to privatisation of the utilities.

There's not much the public can do about it now (except public revolt) since we are dealing with profit making enterprises and no amount of government regulation or fool-hardy price regulation will stop the profit making business.

Posted Sunday 19 Sep 2010 @ 6:47:37 am from IP #
Buzzman
Member

Yeah, the reason I have three meters is that the front half of the house used to be a shop, so they had a separate meter so it could be billed separately and charged business rates, and then claimed off tax, one assumes.
I'm not using it as a shop or business and when I rang up about the business rates they agreed to reduce the tariff to standard domestic residential, but didn't bother telling me that the extra meter access charge could be deleted as well.
I only realised I was being ripped off because I'm energy assessing homes in the local area and many of them have two Residential meters, but are only being charged access fees for one of them!
And I wonder how many other rorts like this there are, around the country, and how many people are being ripped off simply because they don't realise it???

Posted Monday 20 Sep 2010 @ 2:25:38 am from IP #
Diver
Member

Buzzman,

Good thread, it will be interesting to see the response.

There is a feeling of inevitability that while a more equitable user pays system would be both fairer AND a greater incentive towards resource conservation, there is little that can be done to alter the current fee structures. Privatisation only attracts corporate interest if governments present a good business case and the high access fees guarantee a minimal base income. A pretty good deal for the corporates really!

Governments spend huge amounts of money promoting resource conservation and yet individuals who answer the call, which often involves large financial commitments, find themselves paying higher access fees to fund often controversial and expensive 'engineering solutions' that they themselves have not contributed towards the need of.

This is particularly true with some large desalination plants. It will also be true if/when a carbon tax is introduced that will see energy efficient households with PV & SHW that minimise grid usage also getting slugged with higher access fees.

The fee structure could change if there was a moratorium for 3-4 years on access fee increases, any necessary increases being absorbed into the usage fees. This would be easily implemented.

Posted Monday 20 Sep 2010 @ 2:49:41 am from IP #
Buzzman
Member

okay, this is a bump.....

IN my OP I secifically asked two questions and NO-ONE has yet responded to them, so come on people, 'digitus extractus' and tell us what you pay.

Extra brownie points for anyone who can quote the Access fees from two years ago....

"Question: What proportion of the bill do you pay in access fees?
[Be accurate and don't factor in GST, only usage charges and access fees]

Question: How do people feel about these ever-increasing "access fees" and is there, really, anything we can do about it?"

Posted Sunday 26 Sep 2010 @ 6:24:13 am from IP #
rockabye
Member

In country Qld we have the Qld govt owned Ergon. My last bill access fee for Tariff 11 was $24.05 for 89 days but there has been a price rise as of July so it may be a little higher. According to their table it is now $8.22/month.

I have a single meter that reads solar export and 2 tariffs. Access fees only apply to Tariff 11, the others are included in that I guess.

http://www.ergon.com.au/your-home/accounts--and--billing/electricity-prices

As for my feelings I think it is reasonable at that level.

Posted Sunday 26 Sep 2010 @ 7:59:54 am from IP #
Russell Moore
Member

Ok, here goes, my supplier is Integral Energy.

In 1996 I paid approx' 12c a kWh, and NO access charges. Average daily use was 5.3kWh, (two adults)

In 2004 I paid approx' 11.2c a kWh, and 26.2c a day access charge. The access charge was 25% of my bill. Average daily use was 7.1kWh. (two adults, 2 children under 5)

In 2010 I paid 18.9c a kWh, and 52c a day access charge. The access charge was 28% of my bill. Average daily use was 8.9kWh per day. (2 adults, 2 children over

The increase in useage has come about because of the addition of two children to the household since 2002.

Posted Sunday 26 Sep 2010 @ 11:47:33 am from IP #
Sojin_Muneshi
Member

Interestingly, Retailers usually claim the access charge is a fee from the Distributor, ie the 52c per day above equates to @$180 per annum, yet in Victoria at least the Networks standing charge (fixed fee) is @$30 per annum, with the rest of the Network charges being based on volume of energy delivered, ie a price per kWh, often in the order of @ 8c peak and 1c off-peak and these costs are bundled into the Retailers "energy price",

So the "access charge" is not based on the Network costs, and are simply a way for the retailer to maximise profit by having 30% of their revenue not exposed to load shape risk.

regards

Sojin Muneshi

Posted Sunday 26 Sep 2010 @ 12:59:07 pm from IP #
Buzzman
Member

Sojin - exactly my point!

Russell, many thanks for you cogent response!

Rockabye - what proportion of the total bill was the Access fee???

Posted Sunday 26 Sep 2010 @ 11:46:32 pm from IP #
Sojin_Muneshi
Member

Unfortunately many Retailers are gouging their customers under drives by their CEO's to achieve fortune 500 like returns to share holders.

There is little real focus on customer service, internal expertise has been downsized and outsourced, systems are automated but perform poorly, regulatory obligations to advise customers on energy management, energy efficiency and tariff optomisation are paid lip service at best, these forums are littered with examples of call centre and sales staff unable to understand and quote the correct tariffs to customers.

A good example is in Victoria with the introduction of a "Smart Meter Charge" at the start of 2010, where as Retailers had been paying a "metering charge" since 2006 and therefore including it in their bundled pricing since that time, they chose to itemise it 4 years later calling it a "Smart Meter" charge, with many customers complaining as to why they were being charged for a "Smart Meter" they hadnt received.

Where as customers had always been paying for their metering and their poles and wires in the Network costs to the Retailers and bundled in the Retail bills.

In 2006 the regulator simply caused that cost to be transparent by removing it from the Network tariff (by reducing them) and creating an equivalent but seperate Metering Charge. The impact on Retailers was cost neutral and the bundled pricing to customers had no change.

In 2010 with Smart Metering being implemented Retailers chose to itemise this cost and charge it seperately on their bill as a "Smart Meter Charge", yet their bundled pricing already accounted for it?

Is that double dipping?

Did those Retailers "reduce" their bundled pricing to their customers by the same amount as the newly introduced itemised Meter Charge or at least its previous historical value? given it has been covered in those charges since at least 2006?

- An interesting question for the ACCC, ESC and Ombudsman?

The Access Fee is but one example of poor regulatory oversight of an industry with barriers to entry for new competitors ie a lack of true competition.

We need some low cost Community Retailers not unlike Credit Unions and Bendigo Bank, its surprising the ETU or ACTU dont consider entering the market.

Perhaps a low frills "Virgin" Electricity Retailer, who doesnt offer you cook books etc but simply offers interval meter customers "pool price with a cap" or acts as an Energy Broker to aggregate customers load profiles into a single pricing tender?

regards

Sojin Muneshi

Posted Monday 27 Sep 2010 @ 10:11:59 pm from IP #
munter
Member

My last AGL gas bill was $103. Of that, $51 was access fees resulting in near as dam 50% of the bill being fixed! This gives very little financial incentive to reduce consumption.
Would a submission to IPART be the best way for a NSWelshman to try to get fixed charges reduced and variable charges increased? What other avenues are there to get this changed?

Posted Thursday 30 Sep 2010 @ 4:08:08 am from IP #
rockabye
Member

One of the reasons I stayed with LPG is minimal standing costs of gas bottle rental and control over supply. We only use gas for cooking now and the monthly access fee for natural gas was more than our gas consumption. If there is a problem with the centralised delivery of gas we are unaffected, at least for a long while.

Posted Thursday 30 Sep 2010 @ 4:37:24 am from IP #
KKKJames
Member

Buzzman

"Question: What proportion of the bill do you pay in access fees?
[Be accurate and don't factor in GST, only usage charges and access fees]

My Percentage Electricity Service cost (last two bills) averaged 38% - rip-off!

Question: How do people feel about these ever-increasing "access fees" and is there, really, anything we can do about it?"

I feel "Ripped-off" - The only real solution is to be fully independent from suppliers - eg huge solar system with battery storage (RAPS) - but far too expensive to do!

One other possibility is to use the new "Ceramic Fuels, Gas powered Fuel Cell Generators" slowly being released onto the market that converts gas into electricity but I am not sure on the economic feasibility of these systems - and probably if they do take off then gas prices will sky rocket?

Either way the consumer is doomed because these essential utilities are privately owned profit making institutions - I blame the governments for all the F...... mess?

Another thing I have noticed ove rthe last 2 years is that Water prices and Service charges have gone up and up and up!

Posted Thursday 30 Sep 2010 @ 6:45:53 am from IP #
Buzzman
Member

Okay, Sojin, rockabye, munter....

....and all you other 'lurkers' out there.

This is a 'research project'. I want numbers. Actual figures. No names, no pack drill.

So can all those (apart from Russell) who have posted PLEASE supply:

Cost of power usage on last bill in $$. Pls indicate BOTH tariff amount AND total $$
Cost of access fees on last bill in $$. Pls indicate daily access fee AND total $$

Do NOT include GST or other amounts included in TOTAL bill, just uasage and access fees.

Also not who is provide and what region of Oz you're in.

I will compile and send to IPART and Greens/Indpendents for comment/action.

How about a fe lurkers from SA and WA putting in their 5c worth as well???

Ta.

Posted Tuesday 5 Oct 2010 @ 2:22:18 am from IP #
ghostgum
Member

Victoria, South East Melbourne = United Energy as the distributor.

I was on the residential single rate tariff, but have been moved to the residential time-of-use tariff on the following schedule:
http://www.originenergy.com.au/files/UE_Elec.pdf

Other areas can be found on the page
http://www.originenergy.com.au/963/Origin-standard-published-rates

Feed-in tariff is $0.66 per kWh.

On my last quarterly power bill, the approximate figures were $100 to change meter, $50 service fee, $150 usage, $300 credit for net feed-in, adding up to a net bill of $0.

Before installing solar panels, the quarterly bill was $250-300 of which $50 was access fee (supply+metering). We have since reduced our power usage.

Posted Tuesday 5 Oct 2010 @ 3:39:49 am from IP #
Buzzman
Member

BUMP

Need some more figures, people. What about QLD and SA and WA......?????

Come on all you lurkers!!

What rate are you paying for access fees, who to, and what proportion of the bill is it?

Posted Friday 15 Oct 2010 @ 7:19:06 am from IP #
Paul Denton
Member

Buzzman

my retailer is Synergy WA interconnected grid A1 tarrif (flat residential tarrif, not based on time of use.) no choice of supplier here.

Supply charge - 38.23 cents per day ($140/yr)
Electricity charge - 20.83 cents per unit, but will go to about 30 cents next year to bring cost of supply in line with cost of production (results of many years of state government on both sides subsidising electric prices to win votes).

I am shamed to say I use avg 20kwhrs/day, this is for house, pump and includes workshop but a lot is for aircon over summer (to cope with 40 deg heat). Also have PV system to offest about avg 15 kwhrs/day. I did consider "smart power " time of use tarrif, but not very smart and a complete rip off unless you use all your power at night and pay 9c - perhaps I should charge up some batteries at night !.

As I have a PV system, my supply charge is really my cost of having the grid as a "battery" for any of my excess power. The grid is owned by western power, but I am not sure how much of the 38 cents they see for upkeep of the grid.

Regards

Paul

Posted Friday 15 Oct 2010 @ 7:50:48 am from IP #
Karl
Member

We're with AGL in Victoria:

Power Usage (ex GST): $171.58
Tariff: 0.1955c
Access fee: $54.61
Green Energy fee: ~$36.00

This was for the August --> October bill. 430kWh (5kWh per day) for two people. The service fee becomes a larger percentage as the usage falls.

Posted Friday 15 Oct 2010 @ 11:04:21 am from IP #
Buzzman
Member

Hi, all
After 12 months and an increase to $0.98c per day 'access fee' by my retailer, I finally got off my butt and wrote to my local MP who has forwarded my letter to the relevant Minister.

In the reply from my local MP he let slip the relevant person in the bureaucracy is
Mr Mark Duffy
Deputy Director General
Department of Trade and Investment, Regional Infrastructure and Services
PO Box K220, Haymarket NSW 1240
Level 6, 201 Elizabeth Street
SYDNEY NSW 2000
mark.duffy@industry.nsw.gov.au

Anyone wanting to email him about Inequitable Access Fees, go right ahead, with my blessing and encouragement!

Posted Friday 10 Feb 2012 @ 4:03:59 am from IP #
Buzzman
Member

Well, another 6 mths down track, and the bills have gone up AGAIN!

CE/Origin is now charging 125.48c/day, an increase from 98.004c/day for the access fee.

This is an increase of 28%..!!!

For what, exactly???

And the unit rate has increased from 26.228c/kW to 31.29c/kW - almost a 20% increase.

Prior to this increase, 30c/kW was what local businesses were being charged!

Alas, the export rate did not increase at all.....so I'm effectively not getting as much back as I was on the GFiT.

But the "service availability" fee gets my goat.

Let's face it - if the *service* wasn't *available* they'd not be able to sell me any power....

But it irks me no end that someone like me, who consciously cosnumes the minimum possible, is paying the same 'flat' fee as someone who consumes 10 or 20 times as much power.

Ergo, my 'per kilowatt' proportion of the access fee is FAR greater than theirs.

Effectively, I'm subdsidising the McMansionites. Grrrrrrrrrr.

Has anyone other than me bothered to write to the authorities to query this issue?

Posted Monday 10 Sep 2012 @ 8:06:35 am from IP #
alfresco24
Member

Buzz - You're not alone in recognising the apparent inequity and profligate increases in high access/supply charges the last 2 years. The AER (Aust Energy Regulator) and most state governments are finally thinking about it and trying to do something to bring the continuous 'infrastructure' rises under control.
It is often said the distributors have been gold plating their networks in order to lift their (guaranteed) incomes.
Having said that you do realise that what you're paying for is both access and capacity, namely the capacity for you and everyone else to be able to draw the amount of energy needed when they turn on heavy loads, especially heating and cooling. They need to build high capacity substations, transformers, poles and wires to handle daily and seasonal peak loads in order to maintain low frequency and low duration of disruptions.

Right now every residential user pays an equal share of the capacity cost - whether or not they have a high or low capacity. So you pay the same amount as the home down the road that might use 20kW when 'everything' is on, compared to yours taking perhaps 7kW.
That inequity exists and is a fact of life across all sorts or services from insurance to health care.

Commercial and Industrial users pay a separate Capacity Charge. You might have 2 factories side by side using the same total power over the course of a day, but one may be taking it in big lumps, say 120kW, while the other takes a steadier rate, say 75kW. They both pay the same capacity charge, say $14.50/kWh, so the lumpy user pays $1,740 while the steady user pays $1,087.50 plus their energy costs. See the difference?

When the time comes that we all have meters able to record our interval usage then you may see some equity restored and start receiving bills that factor in capacity, not just accumulated consumption.

Bear in mind that a lot of our networks were built in the 50's, 60's and 70's when homes were deemed to have average capacity use around 3kW to 4kW, as opposed to today's deeming of around 7kW to 8kW. That's a HUGE difference.

So the real problem is the way we consume energy. Think about it.

Posted Monday 10 Sep 2012 @ 11:21:28 pm from IP #
dbindoff
Member

Alfresco and Buzz, one of the problems the utilites face is that they no longer have the control they once did and the day is rapidly approaching when they will be called upon to justify their business model and the very existence of a 'utility' for the public good.

Residential storage systems are appearing now , I noticed one the other day, 10kw/12kwh $45000 US dollars for a new rolls royce model, engineered for very long term (I expect say 30 years). These are new technology (released this month) so are at a 'premium' price. I hazard a guess they will more than halve in price, one way or the other, within a few years.

With a small amount of load shifting and substitution most residences could live self-contained within that power and electrical energy storage year-round. At the rates Buzzman is paying, such a consumer with consumption of 4000kwh p.a. may pay close to say $1700 per annum. At $20k or so for both solar production and storage, I imagine it won't take long for independent-minded consumers to opt out.

This would be a very poor outcome environmentally, since a utility with aggregated loads, storage and distribution ought to be able to do it far better by every measure. I can't see much evidence of them seriously heading in that direction, they seem to me to be playing a game of financial and environmental brinkmanship.

Posted Tuesday 11 Sep 2012 @ 2:54:20 am from IP #
rockabye
Member

Write to your state MP and let them know you are tired of this type of overcharging. If you do this they might do something about it.

Posted Tuesday 11 Sep 2012 @ 4:08:38 am from IP #
TonyT
Member

Electricity meter charge in SA is $212/yr.

Before privatisation, my memory is that the meter charge was $100/yr.

The $636/yr charge for our 3 meters (pump + shed + house) is 50% of annual bill.

In 1987 the cost for Day Rate electricity was 17.5cent/kWh, in 2012 it was 28.4cent/kWh and in 2013 it will be 30cent/kWh.

The cost for Night Rate in 1987 was 7.5cent/kWh, in 2012 it was 11.9cent/kWh and in 2013 it will be 14cent/kWh.

AGL website
http://www.agl.com.au/Downloads/AGL3368_27_SA%20Free3%20Resi_Gas%20Elec_Fact_FA_HR.pdf

Posted Tuesday 11 Sep 2012 @ 8:41:43 am from IP #
alfresco24
Member

Tony - In SA's major population centres there's no 'meter charge' as such in most cases, only a daily 'service' or 'supply' charge around $0.72 (inc GST). This covers some of the distributor provisioning and all the metering costs.

Posted Tuesday 11 Sep 2012 @ 2:52:15 pm from IP #
TonyT
Member

Agreed.

Incorrectly I called the $212/yr a "meter charge".

Next year (2013) the fixed charge will rise by 24% to
365days x $0.72/day is $263/yr

With these exponentially increasing prices the Feed In Tarrif of 52cent/kWh will soon be below the cost to buy electricity !

We should have fought harder to stop privatisation !

Posted Tuesday 11 Sep 2012 @ 8:54:29 pm from IP #
Bushwalker
Member

I agree the cost of power will exceed the FIT well within the planned duration of the FIT.

Probably part of the plan... Not sure that keeping the power in Govt control would have helped.

Posted Tuesday 11 Sep 2012 @ 9:36:20 pm from IP #
Jeffbloggs
Member

How can anyone justify being connected to a system that is specifically designed to promote the use of fossil fuels? Go off-grid and stop using government endorsed fake fiat money for debt payments to non-humans (corporations), whom which we are empowering to pillage "our" natural wealth by being a part of their system...

Why would someone willingly be "connected" to such a monstrosity?

Posted Wednesday 12 Sep 2012 @ 7:10:12 am from IP #
TonyT
Member

Agreed JB

As energy costs escalate and the cost to store energy decreases more of us will go off-grid.

I am a fan of your solution - generate biogas and use that gas to generate Combined Heat and Power.

The "small" hurdle is the million dollar capital cost.

An economic analysis would probably show that an installation needs to be sized to supply heat to a district and excess electricity needs to be sold into the grid.

Posted Wednesday 12 Sep 2012 @ 7:43:52 am from IP #

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