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Qld power prices

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Started 8 years ago by rockabye
Latest reply from MaxG

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rockabye
Member

Double-digit shock as electricity bills set to surge by 21. 4 percent. Solar getting the blame as usual.

Queensland's Treasurer slammed the proposed double-digit electricity price hikes as "unacceptable" and blamed "bad decisions" by the former State Government, and the Federal Government.

Speaking on ABC Radio, Tim Nicholls said the Federal Government had permitted its regulator to allow "overinvestment in poles and wires" which made up 60 per cent of the increase.

He said the second largest component of the increase was the "very poorly thought through solar scheme" which gave people who could afford green energy systems enormous payouts.

"Four years ago about 2000 people had solar, that's now heading towards 200,000 and that energy is being redirected back into a system that has to be upgraded in order to take it," Mr Nicholls said.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/electricity-bill-shock/story-e6freoof-1226583094724

Looks like they are softening us up for the sell off.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/treasurer-wont-rule-out-seeking-mandate-to-sell-electricity-assets-20130222-2ev24.html

Posted Friday 22 Feb 2013 @ 6:29:47 am from IP #
dbindoff
Member

"There is little change in the cost of actually producing the power.

A major increase in daily fixed fees in exchange for the rate of growth in the per kilowatt hour price will form part of the solution.

This change in the structure of power prices will hit small users like pensioners and holiday homes but could provide bigger households with some relief."

PARA 1 : I think almost everyone will be aware that the cost to self-produce via pv is dropping.

PARA 2 : If they load it mostly onto fixed fees they will lose many customers entirely to pv with storage.

PARA 3 : I can't see how bigger households will get relief??

I wonder if Queenslanders have thought about daylight saving - the summer peaks for PV would match demand better as far as I can see looking at the AEMO home page intermittently. Qld does have the 'peakiest' power prices of all the states in the NEM, so there is apparently a poor match somewhere for all the infrastructure money they have spent.

I can't help thinking that on balance their problem would be even worse if all the negative demand from the 200000 rooftop pv installations was not there.

Posted Friday 22 Feb 2013 @ 7:01:36 am from IP #
Morbo
Member

the majority will buy that.
So the number of installations went up 100 fold in 4 years. The scheme where people would get 65c per kWh went for 10 months (in Germany it went for 20 years). 2 years would be the "fair" 25c (suppose buy would be 30c) and 1 year would be 6c? In VIC maybe 10 000 installatons profit from the 65c scheme. No burb dog millionaires to expected here anytime soon.

In my area infrastructure has not been upgraded since 1945. Would be nice tho know where the new fancy poles are. Maybe Ukraine, sponsored by EU.

Don't think the price structure is aimed to reduce consumption, if its all just utility fees. By now 80% of or bills are just this, so if I was to half consumption would maybe save $50 pa.

Next door are 4 new dodgy townhouses, 1 split aircon each, front one has 2, because its in full sun all day. One is running all day today, day started at 21°. Maybe the aircons are there for heating and cooling. Would need 4 PV installations to offset this, at least. Looking forward for the next brown/blackout.

It makes going off grid just more feasible.

Posted Saturday 23 Feb 2013 @ 3:22:09 am from IP #
dbindoff
Member

State Price Demand
NSW1 $50.11 8139.34
QLD1 $51.52 6124.45
SA1 $70.34 2145.31
TAS1 $50.57 998.65
VIC1 $54.7 6522.2

From aemo website now.
Vic price is usually less than $50
Qld price is low today
SA price is usually far lower than today.

I don't think there is any danger of a brownout in Vic.

Posted Saturday 23 Feb 2013 @ 3:37:04 am from IP #
Morbo
Member

-how do they know demand 2 days in advance
-some burbs had brownouts recently, could be step down transformers overloaded. Would that be the fridge at 100W or the aircon drawing 4kW, for some odd reasons power outages occur on very hot days?
-so its 7c per kWh at worst and retailer pockets 20+ for no real effort?

Posted Saturday 23 Feb 2013 @ 10:48:44 am from IP #
rockabye
Member

Although I couldn't make it the QCA (Qld Competition Authority) meeting in Mackay last week was interesting according to observers who did go. Some interesting 'whiteboard' discussions about how the solar FIT was 'unaffordable' and a few whacky suggestions on how to 'fix' it. The most likely is increases in daily service charges to neutralise the benefits to participants in the solar scheme.

Also some rural and industry players whose cheap tariffs have already risen 100% in the last couple of years saying that it would be cheaper to run diesels in lieu of the grid power if it rises the predicted 21%.
.

Posted Monday 4 Mar 2013 @ 6:06:45 am from IP #
rockabye
Member

QCA final report recommends moving solar PV customers to tariff 12 among other things.

http://www.qca.org.au/files/FS-QCA-Factsheet_SolarFeedInTariff-0313.pdf

Note the tariff 12 time of use daily service charge is already 86c/day as against the current tariff 11 of 28.8c/day.

http://www.ergon.com.au/your-home/accounts--and--billing/tariffs-and-prices-2012-13#content-id-99573

Posted Friday 22 Mar 2013 @ 7:17:36 am from IP #
rockabye
Member

Courier Mail story re 'forcing' solar power users onto the higher tariffs.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-competition-authority-recommends-time-of-use-tariffs-be-mandatory-for-solar-powered-households/story-e6freoof-1226603478509

Posted Friday 22 Mar 2013 @ 11:02:06 am from IP #
Dora24
Member

rockabye, I read (possibly on Whirlpool) that these smart meters/time of use do not work with fibre to the home that they need a copper line. Can you comment on this? What does that mean for the NBN? and people already on Telstra fibre etc.

Posted Sunday 24 Mar 2013 @ 4:03:17 am from IP #
rockabye
Member

I found this comment from the Herald Sun. It appears the Victorian smart meters use wireless communications.

"Communications analyst Paul Budde believes the cost of Victoria's smart meter program would be cut by more than $500 million if broadband-friendly meters were used.

"Victoria needs to start talking to NBN to see where they can start working together," he said.

Other analysts approached by the Herald Sun have estimated the savings at between $250 million and $300 million.

"Smart meters would have cost Victorians hundreds of millions of dollars less if we had waited for the technology to evolve and if we had first conducted trials so we better understood how the rollout might work," said Alternative Technology Association policy expert Craig Memery.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/smart-meters-incompatible-with-national-broadband-network/story-fn7x8me2-1226159605185

According to this page if you have solar installed you are already fitted with a TOU capable meter. Info near the bottom of the page.

http://www.yourpowerqld.com.au/energy-pricing-and-economy-rates/time-of-use-tariff

Posted Sunday 24 Mar 2013 @ 4:15:15 am from IP #
alfresco24
Member

Dora - the communications module inside smart meters can be fitted in a number of 'flavors' including wired and wireless versions, operating in various open or proprietary protocols layered in some pretty tight security. In Victoria, depending on location, the Smart Meter Rollout includes smart meters running comm's modules that support either; wired power line carrier communications, wireless GPRS, 2.5G/3G/4G and WiMax.
All these systems are being implemented as stand-alone systems and not reliant upon public networks such as our mobile or Internet networks. The main reasons for this separation from public networks are control and certainty - the utility companies want to be in control and they want to be certain they can always access their meters without relying on others, such as Telstra, Optus, Voda, NBN.
It's not that these other networks aren't just about as reliable, it's that Utilities are not in control and cannot keep their patch all fenced in.
The original budget in Victoria included the contingency to replace these comm's modules (where possible) in 7 years. Whether that happens or not and what it might get changed to no one knows for sure, apart from SPAusNet who are probably going to abandon their WiMax in most areas as soon as this year.

Most Smart Meters also include a second comm's module/channel sending ZigBee wireless data into what's called the Home Area Network (HAN) for the consumer to access meter data. The ZigBee channel isnt likely to be changing as future gas and water meters may also provide ZigBee wireless and increase the HAN capability for the consumer.

So the upshot is we wind up with 2 or 3 technologies and protocols all intended to work simultaneously and interfacing across multiple platforms and protocols. If we used the Internet and NBN services to do the same thing it would be a fair bit simpler and cheaper at the hardware level but the software level and data services management in the background would be more complex. And the Utilities dont want to work that closely with Telco's and NBN, even if it saves the VIC economy hundred of millions dollars a year.
AusGrid is actually going to trial a large number of NBN enabled Smart Meters but I think this is just a concession to the fed government and their precious NBN plans.
The same pattern is repeating itself around the globe so you're not alone in questioning what's going on.

Posted Monday 25 Mar 2013 @ 12:27:41 am from IP #
Dora24
Member

Thankyou rockabye and alfresco for your explanations. Qld is yet to go down the track of replacing all the old meters, so it helps to have some understanding, indeed it is quite complex.

Posted Monday 25 Mar 2013 @ 6:15:48 am from IP #
ghostgum
Member

If you are in Victoria and you install solar, it's almost certain you will be put on a time-of-use tariff.

None of the Victorian distributors are using phone lines for smart meter comms. 4 of 5 distributors in Victoria are using a Silverspring mesh network. The fifth is using WiMax. The mesh networks eventually connect to an aggregation node, that could be connected to 3G mobile network, or DSL or Fibre - I don't actually know which and they may even use a mix.

Posted Monday 25 Mar 2013 @ 10:17:09 am from IP #
rockabye
Member

POWER prices in Queensland are set to soar more than predicted.

Under a ruling from the Queensland Competition Authority, the standard household tariff will jump to 26.730 cents per kilowatt hour from 23.1 cents.

However, the greatest sting will come from new higher fixed fees.

Households will pay 50.22 cents fixed for access to tariff 11 compared to 26.2 cents currently.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/power-prices-in-queensland-set-to-soar-more-than-predicted-government-gazette-reveals/story-e6freoof-1226654417980

Posted Friday 31 May 2013 @ 5:11:57 am from IP #
MaxG
Member

Like Morbo said: makes going off the grid even more appealing! I am working on it.

Posted Friday 31 May 2013 @ 9:12:59 am from IP #

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