wormfarm blues
Member
timreverb said:
It's almost like the comments above are about a different company - I'm having trouble reconciling them with the people we have dealt with.
It's good to hear that some people are having positive experiences; how long ago did you deal with the company? Have they turned up for all of their contracted service inspections and maintenance?
wormfarm blues
Member
I have recently heard of a new Worm farm septic company in the market - http://wormsmart.com.au/
Does anyone have one of their systems and what's the general impression of their performance ?
wormfarm blues
Member
Do you mind my asking where you are located, Worm Farm, and how long have you had your system? When you make a service request, how long do you normally have to wait for the visit?
rei109
Member
The 'new' firm is called OnZite and are based at Braeside, Vic. We are considering installing their system at our place in the mountains of NE Vic. They have been very helpful and informative by phone/visit/email. I believe they left A&A to set up separately several years ago. Don't know the reasons for establishing a new company.
They supply gravity feed systems, have EPA approval (CA081/09), and your plumber can install. Last quote was about $5000 (inc GST) plus cartage, plumber, and transpiration beds. leaves you free to do some of the work yourself or shop around for good installation rates/tradies.
A&A Worm Farm Waste Systems regret issues raised within this forum in relation to their system. Please contact this company direct to enable us to rectify your concerns and help if you have any problems. Email: enquiries@wormfarm.com.au or Tel: 03) 5979 1887
Thank you.
OnZite is not affiliated nor have they ever been associated with A&A Worm Farm Waste Systems. If the company is stating such this information is incorrect.
Bushwalker
Member
worm farm waste systems said:
A&A Worm Farm Waste Systems regret issues raised within this forum in relation to their system. Please contact this company direct...
Welcome to the forum A&A!
I think all the members here would be most happy to have you explain the A&A worm farm to us. We'd like to know how it works, what traps to avoid, what sort of failures happen to your worm farms and what arrangements are in place at A&A to provide rapid response in case of worm farm WWTS failure.
We are just wriggling to find out 
craigs902
Member
I've contacted http://www.wormsmart.com.au but unfortunately they don't have approval for thier systems in Queensland at the moment.
Mick@WarrandyteChat.com said:
Hi all,It is now over 4 years since I started this thread. I have not been monitoring it since I had a A&A Warm Farm system installed in Feb 2009. Someone in the thread asked my experience has been.
I have to say that the system was installed in our old septic by Alan the owner and his team in a day and then tidied up on the following day. Since than the system has worked exactly as described in the advertising with no problems, blockages or anything. The only 'fault' was the fasteners on the compost lid breaking out. Alan acknowledged that the bin supplier (you can find the same in Bunnings) had changed the plastic causing the problem. He delivered a replacement personally.
A&A have visited to check out the system according to their schedule.
The company have always been keen to please and helpful with any questions and advice.I have recently been contacted by Yarra Water (we live in NE Melbourne) as they are intending to connect our area to common sewerage system. A&A are assisting me now with the necessary proof to obtain an exemption from connection.
We love our wormies and insist on showing all our visitors our system. It takes all of our household organic waste plus a large amount of green waste from acreage.
I have no hesitation in recommending A&A on value, service and ecology.
Dellerberg
Member
Hi guys just joined this thread. I too am looking into A&C worm farm and worm smart.
I was just wondering if the people who had the most trouble with A&A was because they lived further away? Did the people in Vic get better service because they were closer? I live in Rockhampton which isn't close to anything. I can imagine how much the "free/included" services would cost just to get to rockhampton! Does anyone live in flood areas? And had any problems?
I look forward to hearing some feed back.
MaxG
Member
I am in the process of selecting a system... have dealt with various companies and found A&A to be very helpful. I am, at present, having a system designed with an A&A wormfarm; I will know early next week, whether it will all come together as planned.
We also can have the problem of a high water table, hence, the geotechnician is designing a Wisconsin Mound to be installed. Will know in a couple of days what size it will be. I guess some 80m2 with three bedrooms.
The key issue as I see it; get involved, get the designer and supplier talking to each other and be part of it; some of the council regulations are so silly in what they are demanding.
In my case I have a state forest bordering to my property. There are heaps of cows in it. They crap all day long all over the place -- where is their septic system? 
Welcome to red tape and nanny state.
Oakwoodboho
Member
I stumbled on this discussion this morning while looking for information on supply or compost worms - and was amazed at some of the negative comments about A&A Wormfarms service. We must be another of the "silent and satisfied users". We had our A&A system installed about 12 months ago and it works fantastically, even with very heavy clay subsoil in the transpiration area.
I will admit that A&A appeared a bit reluctant to provide all the details I asked for before the installation, but that didn't have any substantial impact in the end - even though I did find it slightly annoying. Alan, the company MD, turned up on time and installed the system in 1 fairly long day (I provided a little help to make sure the installation was finished before sunset).
The only contribution we make to successful operation is to keep an eye on the water levels inside and outside the tank - and we do this because our electrician "forgot" to flick to switch on the external pump when he installed the wiring. But other than that the system has worked without a hitch all year, in wet and dry conditions.
The heavy clay subsoils required installation of about 200m of transpiration trench, of which about 20m gets used in summer - and the whole 200m gets used in winter, with "overflow" mixing with surface water when the ground is fully saturated from rain. This "overflow" goes through our orchard and doesn't cause any more problem than water flowing off our sheep paddock next to the house, with both flowing away from the house area as intended.
I will be contacting A&A in early November about the first "free" after-sales inspection - although I can't really see the point in having anyone other than me looking after the system. The level of "technical" knowledge required is minimal and Alan showed me how to check and replace the pumps during installation - and I have to say it is almost as easy as falling off a wet log.
I also note that the power consumption from the pumps is so low that it doesn't even cause a blip on our stand-alone Solar PV system.
I happily recommend A&A Worm Farms, and to avoid any problem just make sure all your service providers understand you are expecting good service and nothing less will do.
Jeff @ Oakwood Boho
DaS Energy
Member
An old bush trick, put the South African Night Crawler in the sewage drain trench, they handle toxins and were used to clean up toxic land fill in Sydney. They double in number each month, however if they become unhappy in their environment they don't stay and die they just move out, hence the name night crawler. Any sewage waste may go onto food crop that has to be cooked. On a quite night the gurgling sound you hear is them feeding. Peter
Wormfarmdisaster
Member
Interesting reading. We have an A&A Worm Farm system. We were very taken by the environmentally friendly approach in the beginning but it's ended up just being a complete mess. The system worked for about 2 years and then we started to have serious problems. Filter systems failing, irrigation clogging up with sludge and worm castings and effluent flooding the surface of our garden. A&A blamed us for the problems and have failed to honour their warranty obligations. They do not admit responsibility for any problems with the system and spend enormous amounts of time and energy denying that there are any problems in the first place.
My advice to anyone considering installing an A&A system is don't do it. They are great until they get your (not inconsiderable amount of) money and then they run a mile.
Beware of this system. Reputable plumbing and drainage contractors we have spoken to will tell you the same. Check online forums first before you commit to anything.
Do you homework. Don't believe the sales pitch. Go with something you are convinced will work and then run it past a trusted drainage contractor to be sure.
We have been arguing with A&A for two and a half years and are just sick and tired of them.
MaxG
Member
@WormfarmDiaster: Can you be more specific. You are saying you are having problems after two years of the system working, yet have been arguing for two and a half.
Why is the filter failing? What are you putting into the wormfarm? What is A&A's response or claim? Where are they failing to honour their warranty obligation?
I wait for your reply before I go any further.
Wormfarmdisaster
Member
We put in black and grey water and kitchen vege scraps.
The waste water ran from the worm chamber (re-configured septic) into a sand filter before it was pumped into the sub-surface irrigation.
The sand filter clogged up after 2 years and the effluent started to flood our front garden. A&A installed a pipe that bypassed the sand filter so that unfiltered water is now directed to the sub-surface irrigation. (The sand filter now works at about 5% capacity).
The result is that the sub-surface irrigation now becomes clogged every 2 months and needs to be blown out with pressurised air. Not an ideal solution as we need to dig up the irrigation each time.
The system just doesn't do what we were promised.
MaxG
Member
Thank you for the clarification...
Hmm, this does not sound good indeed.
We have got our system in the meantime and it seems to work without a problem. The installation went over two days; very smooth, very efficient, very knowledgeable, and was executed in what appeared to be good quality; Alan too installed the system. We have two 20m trenches, each 2m wide, with perforated pipes in gravel and sand as dispersion area (2nd stage treatment).
Like others, I also encountered initially a reluctance from A&A to send us all the information. However, this was quickly remedied. I think people who are buying such systems research a lot and educate themselves before parting with their money.
I also believe the system is relative expensive for what it is. However, assuming the system works as designed, no need to pump out anything off-site, as it is the case with septic (toxic) systems, and no need for costly inspections and maintenance, it may pay off beyond usual investment cycles.
Coming back to your system, all I can gather from your description: it is a conversion of an existing system; (and I can only speculate) maybe something that should not have been done in the first place, dimensions and flow may not work as required. Since worm castings (solids) are leaving the first treatment stage, my suspicion is that any fine filter, i.e. a sand filter, will (in my opinion) clog eventually, and needs back-washing to function again; Why I can understand why A&A simply by-passed the sand filter.
Even with the transfer area I have got, I wouldn't be surprised if, though in many years to come, it needs to be either dug up and/or at least cleaned and/or replaced. But this is speculation at best at the moment.
What I would do in your shoes, try mediation; I can see this working as 1-hour phone conference between you, the mediator and A&A, then going through an agreed list of points, e.g.: what is wrong, is it wrong, why is it wrong, and what can be done from either end to fix it, and agree on who does what when.
It seems like you've cranked each other up to the point that a "normal" conversation between the parties seems not possible, as either side seems frustrated with the other.
Good luck!
Wormfarmdisaster
Member
Max,
I am pleased that you are happy with your system and that it is working fine. I hope that you never have any problems with it.
Just be aware that A&A may not be as helpful and professional when it comes to dealing with problems with your system if and when they occur. I have a list of examples of appalling customer service from A&A that I am not prepared to highlight here. I know that they monitor online forums so I have to be careful. They're very good at blame and avoidance. Check out what others say about them, they have plenty of unhappy customers out there. Our experience is not unique.
We will not have anything more to do with them and will never have them back to our property. We will sort out our system ourselves without the frustration and agro.
We, too, were happy with A&A in the beginning and I am now embarrassed to say that I recommended them to others. I will never do that again.
A lesson learned. Not all businesses behave with integrity.
MaxG
Member
My general observation in dealing with trades -- and confirmed by talking to many others -- is that 8 out of 10 demonstrate at least one serious problem, such as misquoting, misinformation, outright lies, substandard work, incomplete work, simply faulty work. This is one reason I am owner-building.
While I understand that the other side of the coin is valid too, such as customers from hell, making unreasonable request, or go for cheap against the advice of the trade. As a professional trade, I would simply walk away from these customers -- following proper processes, or not taking them on in the first place, and as I have time many times in my professional life.
In order to establish, whether a trade is providing shonky work or not, some reasonable research needs to be done to establish, whether this is the case or not. My system serial number is 1830, assuming they have been counting from 0001, A&A have installed some 1,800 systems. How many people are complaining? 10, 20, 50, 100? 20 is roughly 1%, 100 is roughly 5%.
In general terms: if a trade has issues with 5% of their customers, they are are doing pretty well in my books. I am not here to defend A&A or any trade. This is simply my opinion based on decades of observations.
Coming back to your 'case'. While I understand the reluctance to make negative statements, I still think that an objectively written timeline of what has happened can help other to determine, whether they would go with A&A or not... up to you, of course.
In any case, I wish you all the best with fixing the issues. Maybe post one day what issue you had, how you fixed it, and what the result / outcome was... maybe others can benefit from it as well.
When I did my research around positive biological waste water treatment, I spoke with a few of the companies. Basically all claimed to have no knowledge of other systems, how they compare to others, and even how their system actually works... yet making claims that theirs is the best in the market. This is ridiculous! ... would anyone deal with a company that does not know what they are talking about? It comes down to the customer to educate themselves and make educated decisions. Sometimes it means a lot of learning. Sometimes it means to renege on a good system, because the circumstances do not fit that system.
Marketing of any kind presents the product in the best possible light, and never discloses any negatives, unless forced by law... hence, can any offer / company be trusted. I say categorically no
As I said, all the best.
Watermark
Member
rei109 said:
The 'new' firm is called OnZite and are based at Braeside, Vic. We are considering installing their system at our place in the mountains of NE Vic. They have been very helpful and informative by phone/visit/email. I believe they left A&A to set up separately several years ago. Don't know the reasons for establishing a new company.
They supply gravity feed systems, have EPA approval (CA081/09), and your plumber can install. Last quote was about $5000 (inc GST) plus cartage, plumber, and transpiration beds. leaves you free to do some of the work yourself or shop around for good installation rates/tradies.
worm farm waste systems said:
OnZite is not affiliated nor have they ever been associated with A&A Worm Farm Waste Systems. If the company is stating such this information is incorrect.
Onzite is developed & owned by Rotoloo out of Vic - this is not a new system - Approvals Vic EPA Approval CA 081/09
NSW Dept of Health Ref 98/5302
S.A. Dept of Health WCS 1473
Onzite has a sound design - is economically priced - Rotoloo is known for originally bringing the original Clivus Multram composting toilets to Australia - decades ago and developing their own Rotoloo system suitable to Australian conditions then later the Onzite worm farm domestic sewage treatment. Both Onzite and A & A are good quality units.
BYOB
Member
I've just tried to get some product information about their worm farm system from http://WWW.WormSmart.com.au and was rather surprised with response I got back.
"I am way to busy to waste my time on all that when as i said it may not be suitable, try A and A." from Tony Linden
This just shows that you can't even do some research to understand for yourself which system is right. With such arrogance the decision is made easier. I wonder if this guy is the Boss or just a salesman that shouldn't be employed.
I suppose the good thing is they would prefer to sent potential clients to the competitor A&A.
tezz
Member
BYOB,
The answer awaits you ( Tony Linden )
http://www.wormsmart.com.au/html/aboutus.html
SteveHH
Member
Just found this site a few days ago. Phew! It's a lot to read but worth the time.
I too am in the process of separating the chaff from the wheat as far as best options go and have read up on many systems, both bio and tech.
We are about yo build on 4 acres in Pakenham Upper so it's homework time for us. I am surprised at BYOB's experience as I received a prompt and very informative call from Tony a week ago and he spent some time explaining his system to me. I downloaded as much as I could from his website and once I got my geotechnical report to him I received a quote and a courteous reply within 2 days. I am definitely considering the merits of the Wormsmart system.
I am keen to hear from anyone who has had a Wormsmart system in place.
Reply from : Tony Linden, Director of Wormsmart
To : BYOB
It’s so nice when somebody only tells half the story.
I sensed, at the time, that this particular gentleman was obviously on some sort of a fishing expedition.
While I get lots of enquiries this one definitely stood out in my mind.
My advice to BYOB, which he fails to mention, was that I suggested, so I could best understand his needs was to supply me with an LCA.
I could then further assess his requirements and if any of the systems I provide would be suitable in his particular situation.
He then Emailed me back persisting I answer all his questions but still without providing me with any further details to work from.
He particularly then wanted a price at lease which I was, for obvious reasons, not able to provide
A few people, unfortunately, seem to think I have some sort of magical crystal ball.
I am always ready to help people to the full extent of my abilities provided they work with me and can provide me with the information I need to advise them, in my opinion, as to which direction they should take.
This would usually be in the form of an initial phone conversation and not tie me up, perhaps needlessly, as this gentleman seemed intent on doing.
I look forward to speaking to anyone about our worm and septic systems.
Tony Linden
Email: info@wormsmart.com.au
Phone: 03 59665613 office hours
Bushwalker
Member
Tony, once would be enough. You'll get mistaken as a spammer if you keep posting the same message.
What is an 'LCA' ?
BW
