Alternative Technology Assn Forums

1. 

   pssturges
   Member

   Grey water

   Hi all. My first post here. There will probably be quite a few more.

   We will shortly be building a new home in the Blue Mountains west of Sydney. We are looking at doing quite a bit of sustainable stuff. One option we are looking at is grey water reuse. Ideally we’d like a treatment system that produces water suitable for use in toilets and for laundry.

   I’ve been researching commercial systems available and it seems to be really slim pickings. There’s only a handful approved for use in NSW and only a few of those are actually still available.

   Of what is left, I’ve narrowed it down to two possible systems that are even possibly viable.

   One is the Greywise System produced in WA. Generally looks pretty good but power usage is a concern. Price isn’t too bad but certainly not cheap.

   The other is Root Zone. I just love the concept of a reed bed system, but the price is crazy.

   Also, a general concern I have with these systems is that these companies don’t seem to last too long or at least their products don’t, so a few years down the track I might be stuck for parts or service.

   Whilst researching, I came across the water reuse part of yourhome.gov.au. The pdf download (http://www.yourhome.gov.au/sites/prod.yourhome.gov.au/files/pdf/YOURHOME-Water-WastewaterReuse.pdf ) has some interesting info regarding building your own greywater treatment system. In part it says :

   “With council approval, it is possible to build your own biological treatment system for greywater treatment. ‘References and additional reading’ at the end of this article has more details.”

   Funnily enough the diagram shown in the article looks very similar to the Root Zone system, the design of which is shown in quite some detail on the NSW Dept Health website.

   Interestingly, I found this on the NSW dept Health website, so it is allowable for the council to approve a non-commercial system:

   “14.3 Accreditation of Sewage Management Facilities by NSW Health (Clause 43 Local Government (Approvals) Regulation 1999)
   A Local Authority must not approve of the installation of a manufactured DGTS unless the DGTS has been accredited by NSW Health. However, a one off single design DGTS for one specific premises, or a test installation of a DGTS does not require NSW Health accreditation and Council may approve of its installation without accreditation. Any land application system does not require accreditation by NSW Health.“

   Unfortunately, a lot of the references from the article appear to out of date so I can’t find much specific info on how to build one.

   Although in principle a reed bed system looks relatively simple to design and build, there are some details that I would need to work out and the consequences of getting things wrong are pretty serious. I also don’t feel like I can just rip off someone else’s commercial system. I do think I need some pretty concrete info to get it right, but that seems to be pretty scarce. Mostly I’ve only been able come up with systems that disperse the water over your land and not back into the house.

   So if anyone can point me in the direction of some good info, that would be much appreciated.

   Posted Tuesday 17 Apr 2018 @ 9:13:48 am from IP #
2. 

   arttt
   Member

   It been a few years since I looked at grey water systems but the end position i came to was that grey water can be very easily used on the garden with very minimal cost and effort as long as I was not storing it. Laundry and toilet can be supplied from rain water also with very minimal cost and effort as long as you have space for a good sized tank. In many jurisdictions new builds are required to put in water tanks so you might as well use that water.

   A big rainwater tank might be useful from a firefighting perspective as well.

   Once I started looking to treat the grey water I quickly get lost in a world of legislation and approvals, system designs that even when commercial might not have a long track record of functional operations, ongoing high power or maintenance costs and potentially contracts with a company that might not be around long enough.

   If not on the sewer network then it might be different as you are treating black water anyway. If you want to do it for the challenge and the ongoing fun tinkering then that is also ok as long as you are realistic about what you are getting into.

   Also an important word in the quote from the regulations is MAY"... Council may approve of its installation without accreditation..." dont rely on that unless you have reliable advise that your council has a track record of agreeing to this.

   My personal approach if i wanted to design my own system would be to build the house with all the grey water coming to the spot you would install a future treatment system but then use it on the garden or drop it into the sewer until i had time to work on it and it wasn't going to interfere with the approvals for the rest of the build. Make sure your install power, toilet and laundry supply pipes that are convenient to this area as well.

   Posted Wednesday 18 Apr 2018 @ 5:44:42 am from IP #
3. 

   pssturges
   Member

   Thanks arttt,

   I think your experience is pretty similar to what I have found, hence my interest in building my own.

   To give a little more background, we are intending to entirely use rain water despite being in a semi-urban area with reticulated supply in the street and sewer on the property. We will be connecting to sewer. This is not only for sustainability reasons, but also because of the location of the main and the street terrain it will be difficult and expensive to connect.

   There are also few reasons for my interest in grey water re-use. Firstly, to make the rain water we collect go as far as possible by reusing it for multiple purposes. Also to reduce the volume of water we end up dumping into the sewerage system.

   The tinkering thing is also very much part of my interest. After having researched the commercial systems, I can't help but feel it could be done better.

   I am also leaning towards your approach of removing it from the initial build, but set up all the plumbing etc. I already have a tank suitable for holding the treated water, so I could set that up so it drains to the sewer and spend some time perfecting my system. Once its good to go, I can take my design and test results to council for them to approve it. I can then put it into service.

   Posted Wednesday 18 Apr 2018 @ 8:37:37 am from IP #
4. 

   David
   Member

   pssturges said:
   Once its good to go, I can take my design and test results to council for them to approve it. I can then put it into service.

   Good luck with that.

   You'll find bureaucracy is very much alive and kicking unless you go the to effort of having it "approved" all the applicable engineering info for want of a better of putting it. Council will not approve anything without that and applicable testing from the people that issue approval certificates/licenses.

   Treating grey water and being able store it takes lot of "work" for a decent system that needs minimal maintenance, ask me how I know :). if you use solar power it's cheap to operate.

   Posted Tuesday 24 Apr 2018 @ 1:50:40 pm from IP #
5. 

   arttt
   Member

   "There are also few reasons for my interest in grey water re-use. Firstly, to make the rain water we collect go as far as possible by reusing it for multiple purposes. "

   Depending on a things like available roof area and rainfall variability bigger rain water tanks are probably a simpler and more cost effective way of making sure the water supply goes the distance. Remember that almost every farm house lives on rainwater and don't tend to run out with a little bit of care.

   Definitely re use the grey water without storage on a garden rather then send it down the sewer

   I'm not trying to be negative on the idea as it has its place but the legalities and technical complexities mean it's worth looking at simpler solutions that still meet your goals.

   Posted Wednesday 25 Apr 2018 @ 1:50:22 pm from IP #
6. 

   oysters
   Member

   Here's the SA Gov advice on the matter
   http://www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/public+content/sa+health+internet/protecting+public+health/water+quality/wastewater/disposing+of+wastewater+onsite/greywater

   Temporary is quite straight forward. The way its written, sub surface use is prob not hard to get approval for. Ie, you could design your fruit orchard with a gravel trench adjacent to a line of trees. Grey water just goes in to the buried trench. Probably just line the trench, or at least the top, with a geotextile fabric.

   Most council planners by now would be used to people enquiring about these and would be able to give you easy advice over the phone/email on what they expect. Actually, I'll pester my Brother In Law soon about what he'd accept in his council area (rural but also large townships within it).

   I don't really see the point of reedbeds if you want to use it for production purposes, or can get away with disposing of it subsurface. A gravel filled trench is incredibly cheap and simple even relative to a reed bed. No need to stress about trying to maintain Reeds, them dying, mosquito breeding, smell, etc, etc.

   Oh yeah, most septic tanks off their water this way. Just a simple buried gravel trench. That's with blackwater. Councils around the country readily accept this method. Grey water goes into the same. I'm sure it would be accepted with just grey water.

   With some care you could potentially set up a garden bed for vegetables as a wicking bed, using grey water. Certainly you could do it using the "temporary" option. Note that with the "Temporary" approach, there's nothing stopping you rigging say your washing machine up to the proper subsurface gravel pit grey water. And just so happens, you designed your house with a little hole in the wall next to the washing machine, and a nice easy run for a hose to go out from there to whatever you want to water. Once building is built and inspected, hook up the hose. Its not like they can Objectively come all the time and inspect that the hose is being hooked up and used in a genuine "temporary" fashion.

   

   Posted Thursday 26 Apr 2018 @ 10:16:46 am from IP #
7. 

   oysters
   Member

   Here is a page from Playford Council, SA, with requirements for various things.

   Note page two, what I'm talking about would be probably a "Shallow subsurface recycled water irrigation system". Pretty straight forward.

   Harder, is trying to get a home-built composting toilet (eg Loveable Loo bucket type, or wheelie bin type) approved.

   Posted Thursday 26 Apr 2018 @ 10:22:11 am from IP #

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