Solar Power - ripoff? « Alternative Technology Assn Forums

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Solar Power - ripoff?

(15 posts) (9 voices)

Started 3 years ago by CarolOwen
Latest reply from jdaley

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CarolOwen
Member

Hi All

I am a really big supporter of green energy so we installed Solar Panels on our home 4.95Kw which was supposed to be enough to effectively have a negative energy bill on appropriate sunny days.

However, the introduction of solar meant an increase and a split in our tariff. new tariff Peak 1 from 5am to 11pm at maximum price which was a whopping 40% greater than our non solar price. simply put, solar energy ended up costing us more and the feed in rebate was so ridiculous that it didnt even dent the bill

has anyone else incurred this? (and yes, i shop around continuously on electricity)

Posted Thursday 4 Jan 2018 @ 11:05:59 pm from IP #
Morbo
Member

is it different in the country? I got flat rate tariff still.
That tarriff sucks because its pretty hard to move things off peak. Maybe investigate into hybrid systems. Battery that covers times when your PV is not producing enough and charges when PV [roduces more than what you use. But still grid connected. And first of all identify anything where you can reduce your powerconsumption.

Posted Friday 5 Jan 2018 @ 8:42:59 pm from IP #
axess
Member

Hi CarolOwen,

I have a relatively new 4.86 kW system with minimal battery backup. My most recent bill was $44 for 90 days. This is the best bill for 17 years of solar when living in the house.

I run a business from home so occasionally need to use industrial equipment including a welder, grinders and pipe bender. We've never been mega frugal about power usage apart from never having an electric clothes dryer and rarely using electric heaters. We run a pump for toilet flushing and watering the vegie garden. We charge phones, laptops etc and run one desktop computer and a 10 year old lcd tv. We have a small air conditioner for occasional summer sleeping use only (we used it for an hour last night). Our fridge is about 17 years old as is the front loading washing machine. Our dishwasher is about 5 years old. Both the dishwasher and washing machine were turned on yesterday when the solar was generating 3.75 kW and these appliances showed a draw of 3.07kW just before we went out.Something tripped the safety switch while we were out but I think the power went off at some stage as well. Anyway everything still worked all right when I reset the switch.
Perhaps there is an output problem with your system or a load that is skewing the usage as Morbo suggested? An audit is a useful thing. I am also on a flat tariff.Sometimes salespeople have been known to gild the lily somewhat when selling PV systems as well.

Posted Saturday 6 Jan 2018 @ 11:55:24 pm from IP #
Morbo
Member

if you are at home at daytime, use as much as you can. Maybe have to monitor the PV production and what you use, so really just use as much, as the PV generates. What you feed in, loss of monney. What you take out, peg leg is silver lining his pocket. If no one is home all day, charge batttery. Maybe even buy a few UPS to run your laptop from them, just to try. Fridge uses 150 W when running, so this could run off a UPS at night.
Maybe use heat pump hot water, so your excess PV heats up that tank at daytime. Best between 12 and 4, so ambient temperature and therefore COP is highest. Plus your PV output is best.
Or small aircon, there are 750 W ones. Cool down/heat up main room. Another way of energy storage. Essentially you have to shift energy from when you generate too much to when you need it.
To answer your initial question, have a look, which party gets their election campaign sponsored by brown coal mining. Then make your choice.

Posted Sunday 7 Jan 2018 @ 6:12:02 am from IP #
scott drew
Member

Hi CarolOwen,

The changes in tariff should have been explained to you pre-purchasing the system. Not much you can do now I guess.

Do you have a choice of retailer? I am on a 3 tier tariff. I have off peak 10pm to 6am (11c), shoulder 6am to 2pm (24c I think), peak 2pm to 10pm (42c) for weekdays.

Perhaps you can find a retailer that has different tariff options?

Solar pv and tariffs are all about load shifting, not necessarily ripping people off. IF you can get solar AND shift your electricity use then the whole bill SHOULD be cheaper. The companies want people to produce electricity (so they don't have to and they can sell yours) so they don't have to upgrade their network as often.

If your pv set up is a net system, you should get first use of your electricity. So in this scenario, as Morbo has said, use the electricity you produce rather than sell it off. When it comes to dark and your pv cells are not producing, this is when you need to use a little electricity as you can as you are buying it from your retailer.

If you have a large system and you seem to not be able to use it and are just shipping it off to the grid, maybe look at getting some batteries so they can charge during the day and you use the battery at night.

Does this make a bit more sense?

Where are you located in Aus?

Posted Sunday 7 Jan 2018 @ 6:25:57 am from IP #
jdaley
Member

looks like you rushed in and di not study the figures. Sorry to hear that, but many do it.

Posted Sunday 7 Jan 2018 @ 6:34:12 am from IP #
AndrewATA
Member

Hi Carol

A 5 kW system should make a good dent in your bill. If you're in Vic (guessing from Toora Glen), you can choose your retailer and tariff, and move to a flat tariff if that's a better option. I'm guessing your peak tariff only applies on weekdays - is that right?

In Vic the minimum feed-in tariff is 11.3 cents. Yes that's less than your import tariff, but it's actually not too far off a "fair" FiT, and is high enough to really help your bill - most people with a 5 kW system export quite a bit during the day.

We'd like to help you some more - please let us know some more details on your location, tariff options, electricity consumption and generation.

Posted Tuesday 9 Jan 2018 @ 2:03:14 am from IP #
David
Member

AndrewATA said:
If you're in Vic (guessing from Toora Glen)

No it would be Toora North, their is such a place #just saying

Posted Tuesday 9 Jan 2018 @ 5:13:06 am from IP #
The Raptor
Member

I find is sad that people don't invest in a battery bank, that is matched to the size of there maximum daily consumption, then they can self consume all there harvested power.

For nearly all with existing solar (that is paid off by savings), the break-even period for investing in the largest battery bank is usually under 3 years !
Actually, getting a loan for the Battery bank or the whole system will self fund is approx. 6 years. Then you will be free for the next few decades.
A Car loan won't return any reward anything like that, other empty your bank.

And for those that have Cheap off-peak power rates, the option to load shift may be appealing, but only if the rate is low enough.

Plan Nothing and succeed at nothing !

Posted Monday 15 Jan 2018 @ 6:36:49 am from IP #
jdaley
Member

Raptor, while you are head beating the punters, you left the bit out about budgeting to replace the batteries. Whilst the sums look good, battery replacement will alter your outcome, but I think the overall figures will still be good.
With the potential for power cut outs etc for the next year or two, you may not run out of power.

Posted Monday 15 Jan 2018 @ 7:41:37 am from IP #
The Raptor
Member

Sorry, I should have said NiFe battery's (possibly NiCd but not sure of the current cost, but a mate has a huge bank of these & they are 20+ yrs old & still going strong), as I consider NiFe battery's should be the go-to battery for everyone !
The rest are all struggling to get past 10years, so why bother !

Although there is an Australian battery called RedFlow (Bromide flow battery) is Old technological like NiFe, but a vey small 10kWh units and now they are manufacturing in Taiwan so the cost should drop soon, But the price of RedFlow is currently AU$1'000kWh ....double that of NiFe.

Your assumption of self funding is incorrect, well in Australia it sort of works, as our peak rate is approx. $0.25+ kWh, with business like Restaurants & S/Stations paying upwards of $0.45kWh.

Posted Monday 15 Jan 2018 @ 10:15:39 am from IP #
jdaley
Member

Raptor, thanks for that extra info.
When you say my self funding assumption is incorrect, can you explain because I have missed that point.
Can you clarify the difference between NiFe[ Nickel Iron, I assume and Bromide Flow, I take it the 'rest' are lead batteries is that correct?
Is redFlow offering NiFe or do others deal with them?
I am keenly interested to understand since I am about to install another system for my workshop, thanks

Posted Monday 15 Jan 2018 @ 11:07:49 am from IP #
The Raptor
Member

I think I misunderstood you comment on battery replacement !

RedFlow is supposed to be the worlds smallest Bromide Flow (liquid) Battery, where the electrolyte is a Fire retardant, dangerous to inhale, so it is a sealed unit. I have shares in RedFlow, great product there website is: https://redflow.com/ it is part of Z-Cell.
But I still consider NiFe battery's the best by a long shot.

You can purchase similar battery technology to TESLA at half the price with the same cycle rating, they are LiFe-Po4 and cost $500kW for a 5.2kWh battery.

Posted Monday 15 Jan 2018 @ 12:04:30 pm from IP #
CharlieGreene
Member

Payback in under 3 years? How much do you think one of these batteries will cost? For an average house consuming 16kWh/day, it'd need to be around $3k to achieve that quick a payback. Is it possible to get NiFe batteries with 16kWh of storage for $3k? Are you taking into account topping up the fluids and occasionally completely replacing the electrolyte? It sounds great, but I can't help but be skeptical of your claim that for "nearly all" people payback would be less than 3 years... If you think I'm wrong please feel free to include the figures that you've used to calculate this payback

Posted Monday 15 Jan 2018 @ 11:01:58 pm from IP #
jdaley
Member

When you write "cost $500kW for a 5.2kWh battery"
do you mean, they cost $500 per KW that is 5.2 x $500 = $2600
Don't you need a voltage in the statement as well?

Posted Tuesday 16 Jan 2018 @ 10:18:21 am from IP #

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