Hi everyone
I had double glazed windows installed in 3 bedrooms.
Since then, I did the overnight recording of CO2 in the room with 2 adults sleeping (door is slightly open).
Well, CO2 was climbing from about 450-500ppm to about 1600ppm =( Though I did not check what was that reading before I had windows replaced. Maybe it was the same...
Now that I finished the glazing project, I now need to start a new one - ventilation.
Any suggestions?
Ventilation after double glazing installation?
(14 posts) (7 voices)-
SergeyAU
MemberPosted Wednesday 7 Jun 2017 @ 2:59:02 am from IP # -
SergeyAU
MemberYeah... just spent $5K on 4 windows and now need to spend at least as much on HRV system. Can see why not many people are going down this path.
I guess if building $500K house, extra $30K would not mean much, but retrofitting it in makes think if its all worth it in the end.
Hopefully tonight I will get a colleague of mine to run the CO2 test overnight in his bedroom (normal aluminum single glazed). He sleeps with door closed. Would be interesting to see in comparison to my housePosted Thursday 8 Jun 2017 @ 1:06:56 am from IP # -
Foxy
MemberI am curious about this as well. CO2 is one factor but i have been looking into HRV more to reduce condensation. SergeyAu have you noticed an increase in condensation as well as CO2?
My wife and i are building a new home in the Southern Highlands of NSW. We have gone for double glazing throughout our build because thermally they will be beneficial for both our increasingly hot summers but also the cold winters. Part of our contract is a vacuum test at the completion of the build to make sure the house is completely sealed. Hence research into the HRV. Currently we plan to have some ducting installed for HRV in the difficult to retrofit places.
I will follow with interest the CO2 side of your experience.
Thanks for the postPosted Tuesday 4 Jul 2017 @ 11:51:38 am from IP # -
SergeyAU
Membernot much development here.
Dont really have condensation problems here. Saying that, apart from the reduced sound pollution I did not really notice much of the heat benefit. Comparing IR readings from of the black square stuck on the windows (double and single glazing) - there is only like 1 degree difference =(
The room is still cold. Not as bad as my neighbour that I lended the meter to - his dropped to 16 degrees, as mine stayed at 19.CO2 readings... Not much I can do without spending some large amount on HRV system
Posted Tuesday 4 Jul 2017 @ 12:27:44 pm from IP # -
Bushwalker
MemberIf the house is well sealed, ventilation is required.
CO2 is an issue, and also the build up of smells in the house from various sources. HRV/ERV fixes those issues and does significant air changes without losing all the energy in the internal air compared to the less optimal air temperature outside.
Posted Tuesday 4 Jul 2017 @ 2:06:38 pm from IP # -
AndyG
MemberFoxy said:
Part of our contract is a vacuum test at the completion of the build to make sure the house is completely sealed.Hi Foxy,
A Blower test is next to useless if its only done on completion as its impossible to find and fix any leaks.
The house should be sealed and tested prior to the installation of internal wall sheeting as it should be sealed by then anyway and any leaks are far easier to find and rectifyPosted Tuesday 4 Jul 2017 @ 11:13:31 pm from IP # -
arttt
MemberAndyG said:
Hi Foxy,A Blower test is next to useless if its only done on completion as its impossible to find and fix any leaks.
The house should be sealed and tested prior to the installation of internal wall sheeting as it should be sealed by then anyway and any leaks are far easier to find and rectifyIt is possible to use the internal sheeting as the sealing method see
https://buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/air-barriers-airtight-drywall-approach
Its not perfect but it is an accessible approach and for the most part can be fixed up after construction.Posted Wednesday 5 Jul 2017 @ 2:04:26 am from IP # -
AndyG
MemberAS a builder, I would never rely on the internal sheeting as the sealing method.
If you haven't sealed the building buy the time the internal sheeting goes on, I can pretty much guarantee it won't be sealed to any worthwhile degree and you will never in a million years track down the air leaks.You will be surprised just how much air leaks past skirting and architraves. And then there is a huge amount of air leaking past window reveals and window frames that simply cannot be plugged without resorting to horrible looking caulk everywhere.
Don't get me started on powerpoints and light switches (and down lights as well, not to mention the huge reducing in effective insulation they cause, I simply refused to use them in my house)Far better to seal everything before the internal sheeting goes on. Test, rectify if necessary and test again.
Easy to find any issues, easy to repair and if in the future the wall sheeting is compromised for whatever reason (e.g. new powerpoint), you don't have to worry about it.Ive found the easiest and most thorough method (that won't give too many headaches to a builder who has never dealt with this before) is to install and air barrier outside the frame, sealed to the top and bottom plates.
If its brick veneer, then brickies will need to use stubby ties screwed to the studs to prevent penetrating the air barrier
Air barrier installed under the ceiling joists or trusses, again sealed to the top plate and then the ceiling is battened out to accept the ceiling.Its not hard to do, any half decent builder will be able to do it and it doesn't effect following trades at all.
Edit: Just read your link and will just say this. There is a reason most gyprockers are gyprockers. And its not because they just missed out on studying Law or Medicine in their younger days
Posted Wednesday 5 Jul 2017 @ 3:41:05 am from IP # -
arttt
MemberWe are going a bit off topic here andyG.. hope the OP doesnt mind.
You are right there are may be better ways and it sounds like you are doing the right thing for your clients. Im pointing out it can be done so Foxy doesnt think all is lost once the sheeting is up. Apart from the "airtight-drywall-approach" there is another approach called "Simple Caulk and Seal" (you can google it) It is much less taxing on the gyprockers brain, in fact they have nothing to do with it. Both of these have been studied to death in north america and compare to other air barriers favorably.Ive used Simple Caulk and Seal before. After the gyprockers finished and before the skirts and architraves went on i sealed the wall sheeting to the windows/door jambs and floors with sikaflex - no visible caulk and a quick job that fits in between trades.
Sheeting corners are square set to avoid cornices and leaks around them. I minimised electrical penetrations in the external walls and can live with a small amount of air leakage through the few that there are. Minimal use of downlights but many LED ones are fully sealed and can be covered with insulation.Posted Wednesday 5 Jul 2017 @ 7:15:06 am from IP # -
AndyG
MemberWe are going a bit off topic, so I'll make one more off topic comment, and then try to bring it back on topic
I hope you bought a cordless, battery powered caulking gun!OK, back on topic...
I still prefer the air barrier method as it also allows for the escape of moisture vapour from inside the dwelling, while stopping any moisture crossing the cavity
Win/win as far as Im concerned.Posted Wednesday 5 Jul 2017 @ 7:55:57 am from IP # -
d.darroch
MemberSergeyAU said:
Yeah... just spent $5K on 4 windows and now need to spend at least as much on HRV system. Can see why not many people are going down this path.Centralized ducted HRV systems are no doubt expensive. A cheaper simpler system, which may be appropriate to milder Australian climates, is a decentralized HRV system. A decentralized system should also be much easier to retrofit than a centralized system. A German company, Lunos, has been making these decentralized systems for a while.
Their first product is the e2. These work in pairs. While one unit is exhausting air outside the dwelling, the other is admitting air into the dwelling. After around a minute they reverse direction. Each unit has a ceramic heat exchanger, which captures around 90% of the heat from the exhaust air. These units have a small energy efficient fan which uses very little power.
http://www.lunos.de/en/product/e_with_heat_recovery/
An apartment could get away with one or two pairs. A larger house would require more (probably making it no cheaper than a ducted centralized system in this case). I think most people, in milder climates, could get away with a pair in a north facing living area, & another pair for the south facing rooms.
Lunos also now has single decentralized units. The smaller e go & the larger, newer Nexxt (which can be incorporated in a ducted system). Both units are split down the middle, & contain two fans. One fan admits air, while the other one is expelling air, setting up a circular current. Again, after around a minute, the air flow is reversed, & the heat is transferred to the incoming air.
http://www.lunos.de/en/product/ego-mit-waermerueckgewinnung-e/
http://www.lunos.de/en/product/nexxt-en/
Here's an Australian retailer that sells these systems.
https://www.laros.com.au/products-services/energy-recovery-ventilation/decentralised/
Other manufacturers are now producing decentralized HRV now too.
Posted Wednesday 5 Jul 2017 @ 12:03:16 pm from IP # -
SergeyAU
MemberHave not checked my post for 6 months as the forum stopped sending me the updates =(
Anyway, still thinking about ventilation for the bedrooms...
With the prices of whole house ventilation I am now thinking of having just a ducted RC aircon installed with maybe 2 isolated HRV on each side of a house (one near the air return grill). Will not be cheap to run and not exactly a passive house design, but don't think I am ready to fork out $5k+ just on air moving technology
I did like the above Lunos range. eGo unit is 2 in 1 (air in/air out), but $1500+ for supply only. Or have 2x e2 units for the same price.
Have not decided for myself on how much I want to spend to fix this ventilation issue...Posted Tuesday 16 Jan 2018 @ 6:12:41 am from IP # -
Greg
MemberSergeyAU, just throwing an idea at you. Would it be possible to just use a small axial fan (air transfer DIY unit) to pull air out of the bedrooms to another spot in the house like laundry or garage and let fresh air circulate to the bedrooms? The kits are under $200 from memory. It will depend on how tightly your home is sealed.
Anyway just an alternative idea that might work while you decide on spending $$$$.Posted Wednesday 24 Jan 2018 @ 12:31:59 am from IP #