Mandatory assessments across Australia for all houses sold & rented

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Mandatory assessments across Australia for all houses sold & rented

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Started 11 years ago by PeterReefman
Latest reply from Buzzman

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PeterReefman
Member

This is obviously relevant for the Green Loans thread, but I felt it deserved it's own. Big news, especially for those of us staring down the barrel of not recouping our HSA training costs.

http://www.news.com.au/money/governments-switched-on-energy-move/story-e6frfmci-1225827485299

Of course the real estate industry is already kicking up about it. I'd expect the residential building industry to be RIGHT behind this because one of the things they've been complaining against with new home star ratings is that it advantages existing stock. This levels that playing field.

Remains to been seen if something like this can get up in an election year. And of course it remains to be seen how (if) bodies like ABSA and governments can handle it...

One thing is for sure. Those of us that can provide a very good service for a reasonable price will be in the best position to be recommended by real estate agents, brokers, lenders, etc, and of course will stand the best chance to benefit from this in the long term.

Cheers,
Peter
http://www.energised.com.au

Posted Sunday 7 Feb 2010 @ 1:42:32 am from IP #
whatcouldyoubesaving
Member

Peter can you tell us what sort of qualifications you think will be needed to perform these assessments.

I have contacted Work Place Standards Tasmania OUR BUILDING REGULATOR and they cant tell me.

I have contacted a plethora of other people and no one can say what will be needed. If you know something we don't please let us know.

If you don't want to post it here for fear of competition UNDERSTANDABLY you can always e-mail me sonjack@dodo.com.au

Posted Sunday 7 Feb 2010 @ 2:03:40 am from IP #
PeterReefman
Member

Sorry wcybs I just got the news myself. From what I understand there's already schemes in the ACT and QLD.

The ACT scheme requires a qualified and accredited assessor, and they need to have an accreditation known as ACTHERS which requires a minimum level of qualification to even be eligible for. More info is on the ACT Government website http://www.actpla.act.gov.au/topics/hiring_licensing/licence_registration/energy_assessors

Queensland on the other hand seems to just need a simple form filled in by whoever is nearby!...

I'm not in ACT or QLD so if anyone from either of those locations can clarify any of this it'd be appreciated by many of us I think.

At the end of the day there doesn't seem to be any hints on where the national scheme will sit.

I'd suggest we start lobbying to get the best scheme possible (for both the assessing industry as well as making it the best way to help people upgrade their houses to help reduce emissions which is what it's all about!)

Posted Sunday 7 Feb 2010 @ 2:19:54 am from IP #
swanning_it
Member

Not sure if it's the Climate Smart Home scheme in QLD you refer to Peter.

http://www.climatesmarthome.com/

I'll try to scan my "plan", but it was a joke. Paid $50, got a wireless energy meter and a thermometer (not accurate) to go in the fridge!

They gave me a "target" of 40kW/day......only thing is, we average 27kW/day anyway and I thought that was high.

Posted Sunday 7 Feb 2010 @ 2:54:52 am from IP #
dymonite69
Member

Peter commented:

"Those of us that can provide a very good service for a reasonable price will be in the best position to be recommended by real estate agents, brokers, lenders, etc, and of course will stand the best chance to benefit from this in the long term."

'Good service' might be interpreted as a 'favourable assessments'. The assessments need to remain independent and the industry regulated to prevent opportunists from profiting from the process.

Posted Sunday 7 Feb 2010 @ 3:43:35 am from IP #
alfresco24
Member

I wouldnt accept a self-assessed HERS scorecard if I was looking at buying a house, so having independent audited HERS assessors is the only way to go.
The schemes must be harmonised accross Australia - no discussion necessary.

Having it based on AccuRate, FirstRate5 or BERSPro seems logical and is not taking it too far. If the newspaper report is right - that the assessment certificate might cost up to $1,500 to get, then I already know plenty of acredited assessors who'd do it for much less than that.

Yes it is an extra cost but it's possible to show that is a very useful expense and one that helps give homebuyers a good introduction towards a real understanding of how their homes perform and how their behaviors will affect future consumption and waste at home.

Posted Sunday 7 Feb 2010 @ 4:25:27 am from IP #
PeterReefman
Member

Swanning_it no I don't think that's the QLD scheme. From looking at the QLD Govt website the scheme appears to be called a "Sustainability Declaration"
http://www.dip.qld.gov.au/sustainable-housing/sustainability-declaration.html

And from the look of it, it really is a 'do it yourself' thing... Pretty weak. Anyone sold a house in QLD lately?

Dynomite yep you might be right unfortunately. I guess it's up to the control over it. If people needed to reach a certain level of qualification to do them, and if there was a good auditing system (even random) that penalised/removed people doing "Favourable ratings", then we might see some really good outcomes. The ACT Scheme sems to be quite robust. Again, anyone from ACT able to comment?

If it DOES end up like ACT, it's really more like an Accurate-style report as Alfresco has said, and yes it's not hard to find someone to do a sub $1k Accurate report on a new house. Existing houses do usually take longer to get through though, plus there may well be more than 'just' the thermal efficiency that Accurate, etc does. It'd be great to see a more holistic report, even towards the commercial Green Star system.

And if it DOES go the way of ACT's scheme, all the thousands of new HSAs won't be qualified anyway... They'd have to undergo more training - at LEAST being qualified to use Accurate style tools. Another training provider bonanza?!

Posted Sunday 7 Feb 2010 @ 4:59:45 am from IP #
lmc6666
Member

I hate to burst your dreams of $1500 per assessment but the cynic in me now thinks one of the reasons the government didn't put a cap on assessor numbers in the Green Loans program and got into bed with Fieldforce by allowing them an exclusive computer link into the booking system that nobody else could access, was to drop the market value of home assessments going into the future. (Fieldforce have 350 assessors with 150 waiting registration according to the Sydney Morning Herald, and their assessors work for $60 per assessment and still pay all their insurances, running costs etc out of that.I know becasue I applied to find out.) The government currently pays $200.

With an new overabundance of assessors, the government and Fieldforce have very cleverly managed the supply and labour cost base of a fledging new industry that was in theory going to feed into Mandatory Reporting/ Energy Ratings on Houses. I was told that in the ACT pest and building inspectors often throw in an energy rating report to get business for maybe $50. Don't know whether thats true, but there's more competition for the work from that sector too. I had hoped the Cert 4 would be linked to Mandatory Reporting but unless it changes from the Qld system, there's no source of income likely from it and a lot of competition for whatever does eventuate. Sorry, but that's my take on it now having watched the Green Loans with enthusiasm from the start, spiralling down to cynicism and dismay of late.

Posted Sunday 7 Feb 2010 @ 6:20:51 am from IP #
franks
Member

It wont be $1500 for a firstrate house energy assesement
most building drafting firms do the whole lot plans/engineering/energy assement for a dwelling for $1500-$2000.
to be a energy house rater it will take more than a 4 day green loan assessor, most are building suveyors/architechs/engineers ect.
to be a building suveryor its a 4 year course at Associate Deploma level, a cert 4 is post trade eg 3 year apprentership pluse post trade courses.
you wont get in to house energy rating unless you have trade and professional quailfications.

Posted Sunday 7 Feb 2010 @ 7:00:53 am from IP #
ghostgum
Member

I know it depends on occupant behaviour, but the previous year's electricity and gas consumption gives you a pretty good idea of the energy efficiency of a house.

Posted Sunday 7 Feb 2010 @ 10:47:36 pm from IP #
alfresco24
Member

Ghostgum
The HERS relates to the building envelope performance with limited relationship to human activity within it. Not the other way round.

Just because Jo Blow uses 20,000kWh of juice every year in his 5 star home doesn't mean I will. I might use more I might use less.
A HERS rated 7 star house, compared to a 5 star one, can use more energy if the human behaviors are 'weak'.

For me, if I'm looking at two identical homes next to each other, and one is 5 star and the other 7 star then I'd be prepared to pay a few percent more for the 7 star job.

In time the general public will learn to understand this difference in star rating and I think they will start to demand a harmonized approach to star rating for all homes in strayla.

Posted Monday 8 Feb 2010 @ 12:46:35 am from IP #
ghostgum
Member

If the major consumers of gas are heating, hot water and cooking, then it is likely to be dominated by heating. So by looking at the annual gas usage, you should be able to be able to tell if it is a 2 star or 5 star house. It does depend on whether the occupants set the thermostat to 18C or 22C, and whether it is a 2 star or 5 star gas heater (5 star uses about 2/3 the gas of 2 star), but the gas heater is sold with the house, so it will give you an indication of the heating bill for the house for the next year.

My previous 2 star house had the same heating bill as my current larger 5 star house.
Our heating bill increased by a factor of about 1.3 when my wife finished work and had a child at the start of winter.

At least you would be able to tell if the previous occupants were resource hogs.

House energy ratings also appear to ignore window coverings (heavy drapes with pelmets), because these can be easily removed or just left open in winter.

Posted Monday 8 Feb 2010 @ 1:01:50 am from IP #
alfresco24
Member

I still maintain that knowing the properly arrived at star rating of a house is a good basic indicator of what you can expect from that building.

Like the fuel mileage in a car.

Same car, two different people, vastly different actual fuel economy depending on driving conditions and personal attitude.

Homes and building are the same.

Posted Monday 8 Feb 2010 @ 1:15:26 am from IP #
gazgc
Member

From talking to a few real estate agents, I get the feeling that nobody is taking these Sustainability Declarations very seriously. If you don't know an answer, you can leave it blank, which is what seems to be happening.

The agents are not interested in helping the sellers with the forms, the sellers think it's just another stupid government waste of time, and the buyers are not demanding to see the forms anyway, so why even bother filling them out.

Posted Monday 8 Feb 2010 @ 9:34:30 pm from IP #
rockabye
Member

I think your spot on ghostgum. However people who waste energy are usually the ones who whinge the most about the price, so they will never be happy, no matter how many stars are on the form.

I live in 100 year old house with a fairly poor rating I suspect, however my energy bills for 3 adults, one an energy carefree 19 year old, are so low I don't worry about them. Electricity is so cheap in Australia I'm amazed they make any money.

Posted Monday 8 Feb 2010 @ 10:20:56 pm from IP #
dymonite69
Member

I have a German colleague who tells me the situation is different at home. If you don't have double glazing, the house won't sell. Too bad for pensioners if that is the house that you lived in for 50 years.

It is like a bad game of pass the parcel. The last one holding the package after the music stops loses.

Posted Monday 8 Feb 2010 @ 10:33:24 pm from IP #
movin
Member

Completely different housing stock in Europe to here. Ask anyone who has built there or has actually studied this stuff. It snows-reguarly. Doesnt look good when all the elderly and kiddies die every winter due to poor housing standards.

Posted Monday 8 Feb 2010 @ 11:04:35 pm from IP #
Frateco
Member

Just for clarity, the Qld Sustainability Declaration can be filled out by anyone, no qualifications required. If the home owner wants to, all they need to write is the sign their name. real estate agents do look unfavourably upon it for 2 reasons: they see it as a waste of time because of the reason gazgc sid and they feel buyers could use it as a bargaining tool. Most of the real estate agents are not recommending anyone to clients but rather telling them to go the web. At the end of the day, there does not seem much business with Sustainability Declaration until it is legislated that the person filling it out is qualified with some form of sustainability training.

As for ABSA and DEWHA, what a joke!

Posted Monday 8 Feb 2010 @ 11:38:21 pm from IP #
Buzzman
Member

As usual, unless "Mandatory Disclosure" is properly "mandated" and regulated by a national auditing body, it will go the way of the Green Loans farce and the dodo.

Personally, I think MD is a Federal initiative and QLD jumping in with a freebie is a bit like NSW jumping in with a 'free' BASIX for new homes. It's seen as a vote winner by the State pollies so they undermine or water down the Fed initiative.

I read somewhere recently that the ACT scheme is much more rigorous and early data suggests an extra "star" in a houses rating can influence price up to $8K. So a 7-star house is worth $16K more than a 5-star one. Which kinda answers the Real Estate critics.

Reading between the lines, and I have worked with enough real estate agents, it will be one more thing they have to do ie: they will have to work!! Whether to get the homeowner to complete it so they can list it, or convince a buyer that it's a good deal, it will mean work. And they are probably worried it might erode some of their precious commission. Anyone think I'm being too harsh?

With any luck MD will eventually go the way of the BCA and Vehicle Licensing and railway gauges, and become 'national' in framework and fit.

Fingers crossed, but not holding my breath
Mark

Posted Tuesday 9 Feb 2010 @ 12:17:40 am from IP #
Frateco
Member

Buzzman, the Sustainability Dec is very different to what you're talking about.

What you're talking about is HERS: "House energy rating through the Nationwide House Energy Rating Scheme (NatHERS) uses computer simulations to assess the potential thermal comfort of Australian homes on a scale of zero to 10 stars. The more stars, the less likely the occupants need cooling or heating to stay comfortable." http://www.nathers.gov.au/

Only energy assessors can do this through (get this) computer stimulation!!! Here's another laugh - if you had an energy assessor accreditation, you still could not be a HSA Assessor. You still needed to do the HSAS course.

Now someone tell me if this is not a blatant money grab !!!!

Posted Tuesday 9 Feb 2010 @ 5:00:51 am from IP #
dymonite69
Member

The market probably doesn't give two hoots about a house's energy efficiency. I was idly looking at the real estate pages last year and noticed a house that was clearly an eco sustainable design. There was not one mention of any of these feature in the paper or the internet version. The agent was more interested in describing the living spaces and the interior finishes.

Posted Tuesday 9 Feb 2010 @ 5:54:40 am from IP #
gazgc
Member

Maybe we should all become real estate agents! LOL

Gotta be more money in it!

Posted Tuesday 9 Feb 2010 @ 11:53:29 am from IP #
Buzzman
Member

Frateco

Sorry If my post wasn't clear. I'm aware that the QLD Sust Dec bears no resemblance to the ACT EER which, as you correctly point out, requires a NATHERS qualified assessor using First Rate or similar.

Have just spent an hour or two traling the web and have found all the relevant docs regarding COAG Strategy and NFEE which indicate clearly that it is proposed to begin implementing Mand Disc as per ACT scheme from May 2011.

Wait and see, I guess.
Cheers
Mark

Posted Tuesday 9 Feb 2010 @ 12:23:52 pm from IP #
homes5
Member

I am a thermal performance assessor in VIC and understand that we will need to do the new HSAS Cert IV to do existing homes -hope to get some couse credits!

Holmesglen Tafe is the only institution i can see who have training up scheduled for 28th April 2010 - http://www.shortcourses.holmesglen.edu.au/crs21854vic.html

More concerning is that the 1000's of current HSAS will probably do the new course to actually get a chance of earning some money - however there are no "prior" learning req's for this new course - will we have untrained / low knowledge of people doing assessments? It is frightening!

The training docs refer to using a "simple thermal calculator" - does anyone know what this actually is? I can't see how you can rate an existing home using simulation software if you don't have full plans, sections, elevations, window schedules, etc....

Posted Friday 12 Feb 2010 @ 2:46:20 am from IP #
whatcouldyoubesaving
Member

Interesting reading

http://www.cpsisc.com.au/projects/Prop_Projects/Home_Sustainability_Assessors_Project

Have a look who is on the top of the list for the steering committee.

Posted Friday 12 Feb 2010 @ 8:24:43 am from IP #
KarenS
Member

"Have a look who is on the top of the list for the steering committee."

Only because the list appears to be arranged alphabetically by surname ...

The next line of the original document states that:

"David Magee of CPSISC is managing this project."

Posted Saturday 13 Feb 2010 @ 10:56:43 am from IP #
whatcouldyoubesaving
Member

Yes Karen I understand that but FF have been given preferential treatment throught this whole precess... Have a look around this forum and you will see people admitting that SOME FF assessors dont give a HOOT.... Maybe you work for FF....????

I wouldn't be defending them if you were a sole trader LIKE MOST OF US because if you are they are part of the reason you wont have a job in a few weeks............

I am a sole trader assessing since September.. Did my course in June 09 I was promised a limit on numbers.. and FF ......FFed it for the rest of us........... Not to mention private call cent re lead sellers...............

NOT HAPPY JAN.......................

Posted Sunday 14 Feb 2010 @ 2:28:04 am from IP #
trickst
Member

RE: I am a sole trader assessing since September.. Did my course in June 09 I was promised a limit on numbers.. and FF ......FFed it for the rest of us........... Not to mention private call cent re lead sellers...............

No, DEWHA did a fine job of stuffing it up for everyone, not FF.

Posted Sunday 14 Feb 2010 @ 2:34:01 am from IP #
alfresco24
Member

Coming back to the original post.

It seems like there is no vote as to whether we have mandatory HERS on homes and commercial premises.

It's coming, it needs to be set up to be run properly (not like HSAS), and the public need to learn all about it otherwise mandatory HERS will be interpreted as another expense without much value.

I've seen nothing in South Australia aimed at educating consumers about this looming legislation.

However a HERS is only half the story because a second part of a scorecard has to add the actual energy and water consumption used by the occupier shouldn’t it?

I'd like to see the Home Scorecard to include;
- HERS (Accurate...) Star Rating, 1 to 10 stars
- Number of occupants
- Consumption in units and cost for Electricity and Gas (or equivalents), and mains water use with harvested water capacity.
- Advice about the top efficiencies and deficiencies in the premises, and effect on star rating.

Posted Wednesday 17 Feb 2010 @ 7:44:27 am from IP #
JohnW
Member

be kept up to date with the QLD Sustainability Declaration legislation here
http://www.sustainabilitydeclaration.net/

Posted Wednesday 17 Feb 2010 @ 11:26:11 am from IP #

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