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First energy 'bill' after PV installation

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Started 12 years ago by PeterReefman
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PeterReefman
Member

I'm happy to say that the first bill just arrived today for electricity consumption (we don't have any gas so this is our total energy). Actually it shouldn't be called a bill, it's more of a wage slip. ;O)

I won't mention the energy retailer as I know the forum has had a few ads lately, but it's one of the payout ones. I'm in Vic by the way, so it's a net FiT...

In a nutshell, here's the figures :

Service charge : $59.77
Peak use : 214kw/h @ 22.29c per kw/h - $47.99
Off-peak use : 164kw/h @ 8.75c per kw/h - $14.45
Green energy tariff (100% wind) : 378kw/h @ 5c per kw/h - $18.90

Total costs : $141.11

Exported solar electricity : 507kw/h @ 66c per kw/h - $334.62

Total net : $193.51 payment.

We produced an average of 8.36kw/h per day, and exported an average of 6.2kw/h per day. We imported an average of 4.71kw/h per day, for an average total consumption of 6.86kw/h per day and an average net consumption of -1.51kw/h per day.

It's important to note that the actual figure is even better than $193.51, because as most here will know the average Australian households spend approximately $400 per quarter on energy ($250 on electricity and $150 on gas). This means the house is in fact $593.51 cheaper to live for this 'billing' period than in than the average house next door.

At this rate the 1.4kw system will pay itself off within 4 years, and will save/earn real money for a long time after that. Not to mention the carbon savings and contributing to supporting the renewable energy industry.

Oh one other thing - the service charge HAS gone up, and the peak rate has also gone up, but I feel that's a very reasonable compromise for not needing to buy/live with/maintain a battery bank.

Yep I'm very happy with it. Anyone else got good-news PV stories?

Posted Thursday 14 Jan 2010 @ 12:08:16 pm from IP #
Sunshine
Member

PeterReefman,

Am in Qld, have a 3kW system. Am with Origin paying who is currently for feed-in.
Am swapping to AGL who are now offering 52c/kWh.

My last quarterly bill is as follows..

Not bad considering I don't have gas anymore and run a pool with heating (solar).

Service charge : $19.65
Ambulance levy : $26.36
Household use : 558kw/h @ 17.13c per kw/h - $95.58
Total costs : $141.59

Exported solar electricity : 986kw/h @ 50c per kw/h - $493

Total net : $351.41 payment.

Am also very happy with how it's performing, it's a pity I don't have any more northern roofspace.

I have also since moved the pool pumps onto Tariff 33 (controlled tariff), so the next "bill", should get closer to $400 credit per quarter...

Posted Thursday 14 Jan 2010 @ 1:03:19 pm from IP #
CNCandy
Member

Why is there an Ambulance levy on your Power bill ?

Posted Thursday 14 Jan 2010 @ 5:17:36 pm from IP #
Amcd
Member

CNCandy
That is the way the Queensland government collects Ambulance funding.

PeterReefman

It seems you are in vic and have a 1.4kw system that is producing an average of 8.36kw/h per day ..
Is this correct? It is great if you are, but it sounds a bit high?? What sort of system is it?

Cheers

Posted Thursday 14 Jan 2010 @ 8:58:40 pm from IP #
PeterReefman
Member

Amcd : Whoops! Thanks for pulling me up on that. I had a check of my maths and found an error! That same error carried through the other averages as well, so here they all are again (hopefully 100% accurate now).

Average energy produced per day : 7.09kw/h
Average energy imported from grid : 4.01kw/h
Average energy exported to grid : 5.26kw/h
Average total consumption per day : 5.84kw/h (import + (production - export))
Average net consumption : -1.25kw/h (import - export)

The system itself has 7 Sanyo 205w HIT panels (so is technically 1.435kw), and uses a SMA 2.8kw inverter. We've got a Sunnybeam display unit but already don't use it much, I just take daily readings.

Again, I'm trying to be carfeful with the Ad thing, but if you want to see more, there's running charts on the performance at http://www.energised.com.au/8Aquarius_charts.asp

Cheers,
Peter

p.s. Well done Sunshine!

Posted Thursday 14 Jan 2010 @ 10:16:32 pm from IP #
Russell Moore
Member

Very interesting set of stat's, nice and easy to read.

How many people are in the house? I see that your water and electricity use is quite low. We have four, 2 adults, 2 children, and average 8.5kwh, 450ltr a day.

It would make for some interesting reading if there was some extra weather information, such as cloud cover, with the stat's so we could see what effect it has on the power outputs, and consumption.

Posted Thursday 14 Jan 2010 @ 11:04:03 pm from IP #
alfresco24
Member

Peter
Just going back to your first figures.
What date range was that for and how many days?, and what were your up front expenses? if it's not too much to ask.

Posted Friday 15 Jan 2010 @ 12:41:25 am from IP #
PeterReefman
Member

No worries alfresco.

The recording started on Sept 24th 2009, so 115 days.

The system cost $9,300 all up, including mounting frames (the roof is 1 degree...); the Sunnybeam; and some extra for being double storey. That was minus the $8k rebate, which I'm very happy to have gotten before the whole thing switched over to the current (crap) solar credits/multiplier/phantom system.

Russell thanks for that. We have the same family of four here. I'd like to include more stats, but it could end up swallowing up my life if I give it a free reign! Our water is low due to low use appliances, no-water garden (no lawns), and the vegie garden isn't made yet. I expect the garden to use about 250 per day over Winter, and 450 over Summer when the vegies need extra water.

One other thing to note is that we went on holidays over Xmas for a couple of weeks to Tassie (did the Overland Trial which was great), so there was some quality generating time in there with no consumption apart from our 5-Star fridge (which uses less than 1kw/h per day). I wasn't sure if this period should be ripped out so that recording only took place while the house was being actively inhabited, but figured that people DO take holidays, so it's reasonable to include it. Having said that I feel our daily consumption is more like about 7kw/h than 6kw/h, and the average should head toward there over the next 6 months+ in which no 'unoccupied' days are planned.

Bottom line with all this is that I'm really excited about the whole thing, and want the figures to be as accurate, transparent, and easy to read as possible. So welcome any other questions/corrections/etc.

Posted Friday 15 Jan 2010 @ 12:56:44 am from IP #
moemoke
Member

Thats a great set of figures Peter, I got our latest bill from Origin yesterday and was
a bit disappointed. We have a 1.4kw Grid connect we used 613kw for 95 days (6.45kw per day)and we exported 311kw (3.27kw per day) but they only paid use a feed in price of 23.5 cents instead of the 66 cents we were hoping for. I sent off the agreement on 20-11-09 which I thought they would of received by now. I rang Origin this morning to ask them what had happened and they were supposed to ring back, Still waiting
We are a family of 4 with a shift working wife so we use a bit of power when she is home during the day, but we will be adding 4 more panels to our system to take us up to 2.1kw which should be good if the FIT stays at 66 cents.

I like your graphs on the link you provided, what sort of system to you use to moniter
it all?
I have a sunny beam as well, I used to be able to upload the data to the SMA website but for some reason I cannot get it to do it, have you tried it?

cheers

Posted Friday 15 Jan 2010 @ 11:07:28 am from IP #
PeterReefman
Member

Moemoke are you in Victoria? If so keep at Origin because they will backdate it to the first of Nov if you can show you had the system installed and operating before then. If not (in Victoria), I'm not sure what their policies are.

It's a pity you can't shut the house down more over the day - I guess that's the main problem with a net tariff - especially for pensioners, disabled people, very young families and others that need to stay at home during the day.

I'd love to double mine to 2.8kw will cost (at the last quote) $12,000. But the minister for finance here has already allocated budget, and there's nothing left for capital works in this financial year...

Right now I think I can say that the system (and associated energy efficiencies in the house) amounts to a $2,000+ annual benefit over a 'normal' house. To double the system would easily bring this figure up to $4,000. As far as I'm concerned being able to show benefit figures in the thousands per year is what we need to be dping to convince even (far) more households out there to go solar and improve their houses to the levels that many of us here are already doing.

Thanks re the graphs. Yeah I was the same with the Sunnybeam abd SMA website. I gave up and wrote some web-based charting software of my own, which is what you see. It's basically just a web form to input updates of temps and electricity & water meter readings, and it works out the rest from there (if I can keep my maths straight)

Cheers,
Peter

Posted Friday 15 Jan 2010 @ 10:24:08 pm from IP #
GJOESQ
Member

PeterReefman, congrats to you and everyone else who's getting the rewards from their PVs and sustainable lifestyle changes. Hopefully our 2 kW system will be installed real soon so we can add our positive report. At least we have our daily use down to 7.6 kWhs currently thanx to our solar HWS.

The gross system IS the fairest as it can't be manipulated and doesn't favour households whose inhabitants disappear during daylight hours!

Posted Saturday 16 Jan 2010 @ 12:33:47 pm from IP #
norbert
Member

We have a 2.52 kw system (12xSP210) and from Nov 02 to Dec 22 (50 days) we produced 696 kw/h (daily average 13.92 kw/h.)We exported 510 kWh and imported 152 kw/h.If I calculate the right way and please correct me if I'm wrong, our household used 186kw/h
(696kw/h-510 kw/h)+152kw/h a total of 338kw/h:50days = 6.76 kw/h per day.
Import electricity was charged at 16.12cents kWh, export electricity was credited at 23.50 cents kWh.Our total power bill (including 25% origin green)was $ 33.63 credit.

Posted Sunday 17 Jan 2010 @ 4:08:52 am from IP #
moemoke
Member

Yes Peter I'm in Moe Victoria.

Spoke to Origin this morning and I will receive the full FIT credit on the next bill, backdated to when they received my application (late November 09)
Our bill at the moment stands at $141 of elec used and $73 for exported power at 23.5 cents a kw, with the 66 cent FIT the $73 will become $205 credit,
Very happy with that, if my sums are correct!

Apparently it is taking the power retailers a while to change their accounting systems for the FIT and Smart meters, they are doing it one area at a time so to speak, of coarse my area is last.

Posted Monday 18 Jan 2010 @ 11:16:24 am from IP #
mwigan
Member

Awaiting my first bill with some forboding....In in Melbourne metro, and have had a 3kw system running since the start of ñovember, but have had ongoing headaches trying to make sense of the readings on the 'smart meter', and also (oddly) the Bluetooth Sunny Beam (which seems to think that there is a flat rate from 8-11m each day, level varying by day, but alway flat!) so anyone who has a sunny beam id LOVE to chat to.. im a Mac user and want to use the downloading support from sma...

Posted Monday 8 Mar 2010 @ 7:29:05 am from IP #
dymonite69
Member

Peter said:

"I'm happy to say that the first bill just arrived today for electricity consumption (we don't have any gas so this is our total energy)."

What do you use for heating?

Posted Monday 8 Mar 2010 @ 7:45:53 am from IP #
Russell Moore
Member

Integral Energy's gross feed in meter is identical to my 28 year old standard use meter....mmm, so I just like to see the GFIT meter out spinning the import meter.

Posted Monday 8 Mar 2010 @ 8:35:29 am from IP #
PeterReefman
Member

Hi Dyno - The Sun! Well, 90%+ of the heating for this house (which is 8 Star) is passive solar. It's only the coldest, most overcast days of winter that we need any artificial heating, and that's done by a 750w reverse-cycle air-con (it's NEVER used for cooling by the way).

Here on the Vic southwest coast that means it's on about 40-50 nights per year, and on those nights it barely needs to turn on anyway because any heat generated stays in the living area, and so uses around 1-2kw/h each of those crappy nights.

Last September I got a hard-wired meter installed for the AC circuit so that I can pinpoint exactly how much energy it uses each year. Being Spring/Summer and now a bit of Autumn we haven't used any yet.

By the way, the original post I did for this was that Origin paid some money to us for exported energy - There's been a LOT of hassles since then and we haven't actually got any yet, but they've promised to backpay right back to the first of Nov 2009.

Posted Monday 8 Mar 2010 @ 9:39:31 am from IP #
CNCandy
Member

Peter, Are the Sanyo panels that good as it seems quite high output wise, what postcode are you in. I'd been considering initially getting the HIT panels but they are extremely expensive about $1500 a throw and for about $10k would only get me a SMA2500 and about 7-8 panels.

Is it worth it for the smaller but higher efficiency system vs a much larger less efficient system?

Have now found a place nearby me that can do 2.5Kw of Evergreen 200w 'ish panels and the SMA3000TL for that magic $10k, covering about 90% of my bill!

Posted Wednesday 10 Mar 2010 @ 6:49:26 am from IP #
PeterReefman
Member

Hi CNCandy

My main priority was to get as much capacity on my reasonably small (110m2) roof as possible. The roof is also flat, which meant frames for any panels would be needed.

The roof also has a large-ish solar hot water system which needed to go in a specific spot (for structural reasons), which was a slightly awkward position in terms of PV panel placement. Next time I know there's an improvement to be made!

The company I chose (Solarshop, hope it's okay to mention suppliers..) was because on behalf of the local sustainability group I was also organising a bulk deal for other residential and schools, and while they have a large number of possible panel brands were recommending Kaneka amorphous or the Sanyo HITs at a really good price (back with the old $8k rebate...).

As the Kanekas had both a much lower energy density and also needed more panels/frames it would have cost more $$$ for less potential capacity. The max for the roof with the Kanekas was about 3 - 3.5kw if I remember correctly, whereas I can eventually get to 5kw (the Vic FiT limit...) easily with the Sanyos. I actually could have got close to 5kw with regular monocrystallines too, but it was nice the use the Sanyos as they were innovating/improving PV which was something I felt was worth supporting (and having on my roof!).

By the way plenty of Kaneka systems were installed on other peoples' (and now school) roofs and all are happy with them, so I'm not saying the Kanekas are no good, they just weren't appropriate for my roof.

My postcode is 3305 (Portland Vic). The output is actually a running total which started at Spring last year (Sept 24) and has seen all of Summer. I expect the average to slip back to the rated (approximate) 6kw/h once we get a whole year in. But having said that, this should still give the house very close to energy parity and a FiT cash surplus with the modest 1.4kw system. The goal now is to double the PV to 2.8kw, and perhaps even to the full 5kw (well, 4.920kw).

Posted Wednesday 10 Mar 2010 @ 1:00:49 pm from IP #
Michael L.
Member

I have just received my account from Origin for 93 days, 9 Nov 09 to 10 Feb 10.
I used from the grid 414 kw, including both peak and OP. My total feed in was 45kwh @ 23.5 cents, (Back pay for previous period) and 195kwh @66 cents. With service charges and the first instalment of the "smart meter" rollout, ($5.50) I received $12.70 credit.
Average daily mains use was 4.5 kwh and average daily solar generation on a monthly basis was between 5 and 5.5. for the period. (There were 2 tariff changes during the period, and it's hard to decipher the actual figures.)

This is for a North Western suburb of Melbourne.

Posted Tuesday 23 Mar 2010 @ 11:49:39 pm from IP #
Solgen
Member

I have had a 1.7kW PV system in service for 12 months and today I received my first account from Energy Aust with the new feedin tariffs. Power bought 401kWh at $99.95 but power sold 513 kWh for $257, after GST etc in credit for $148. What a nice feeling making money out of solar!!
Furthermore, we are getting another 1.5kW installed tomorrow, will never have an electricity bill again.

Posted Wednesday 24 Mar 2010 @ 7:32:02 am from IP #
PeterReefman
Member

Wow Solgen that's awesome! Well done. I'd love to get another 1.4kW...

And great stuff also Michael. Is it a 1kW system? Nice to be in credit with that size, even if it's over the sunny season.

Posted Wednesday 24 Mar 2010 @ 11:12:14 am from IP #
Russell Moore
Member

I am sure I read a thread somewhere on this, but I can't find it.

Is anyone having problems with what the inverter is claiming as the total output, as compared with the GFIT meter?

My inverter is showing 713kwh, but the GFIT meter is showing 669, a difference of around 6% in favour of Integral Energy..

Posted Friday 9 Apr 2010 @ 8:05:26 am from IP #
Inspector
Member

It was on another forum http://forums.energymatters.com.au/post6502.html

Posted Sunday 11 Apr 2010 @ 4:26:31 am from IP #
norbert
Member

We received our first Vic FIT Origin electricity bill yesterday.
From 22 Dec 2009 to 26 Mar 2010 94 days.

22 Dec 2009 to 08 Jan 2010 17 days

Usage 46 kWh charged at 16.12 c/kWh
Export 197 kWh credited at 23.50 c/kwh

08 Jan 2010 to 26 Mar 2010 77 days

Usage 253 kWh charged at 18.4884 c/kWh
Export 778 kWh credited at 66.00 c/kWh

Less service and metering charges and 25% green power contribution our bill showed a total credit of $ 460.13

We are very pleased with the performance of our 2.52 kw system

Posted Saturday 17 Apr 2010 @ 1:17:31 am from IP #
IAEA
Member

PeterReefman is happy to write:
Posted Thursday 14 Jan 2010 @ 12:08:16 pm from IP

It is Saturday, 20 August 2011.

By now there would have been some more of those dastardly bills one has to pay. Are you in a position to post what savings/earnings your sys. has been able to offer you?

IAEA

Posted Saturday 20 Aug 2011 @ 1:30:42 am from IP #
cw nsw
Member

I'm on the NSW Gross Meter system - 60c tarrif - no additional payment from my supplier. Next meter reading is scheduled for first week of September. Currently $766 in credit, however my winter electricity usage will be nearly 900kWh & system output about 400kWh, so credit will drop by about $100. Nevertheless my very first cheque in September will pay for my vehicle's annual registration & associated costs

http://mypvpanels.blogspot.com/search/label/Export%20graphs

graph in my blog post from July 1 shows my first year of generation against my usage.
(I have LPG gas bottles & a Rinnai Infinity unit for HW, cost is getting close to $1/day - quite expensive for one person using hot water judiciously. Cost includes a cheeky annual service charge introduced at $66 a few years ago, last year levied at $85 by Elgas.)

Posted Saturday 20 Aug 2011 @ 4:06:53 am from IP #
PeterReefman
Member

Hi IAEA

We've been hovering around a credit of a couple of hundred dollars for awhile now. Winter is going backwards slightly (due mainly to service costs), but with longer days around the corner it'll be swining into surplus again.

That's everything. All 'regular' electricity like lighting, applicances, etc - and also all heating, cooling, cooking, and hot water (electric element boost on a flat plate SHWS)

The system we got was about $9300 when we bought it, but a same system today (with chinese components that I'd be now happy using) would be about $3500.

Let's see - last bill (4 Apr - 10 Jul 2011)
Service charge : $56.96
Peak use : 329kWh @ 26.49c per kWh - $87.15
Off-peak use : 728kWh @ 10.98c per kWh - $79.93
Green energy tariff (100% wind) : 1057kWh @ 5c per kWh - $52.85
Total costs : $276.89

Exported solar electricity : 220kWh @ 66c per kWh - $145.20cr

Total net : $131.69 cost.

It's good to look back on. We used quite a bit more at peak - and a LOT more during off-peak. We also exported less probably due to the fact that we used more during peak times and we're on a net system. Our retailer put consumption costs up a LOT too which didn't help...

So in retrospect even though my family of four went off with a flying start, we've obviously taken a bit of a step backwards in energy efficiency which while not a disaster gives us room to improve.

Or... get some more capacity - which is actually what's planned. I've got an order in for a quote of either another 2kW or another 3kW. But they will only happen if the Vic Govt doesn't close the Vic PFiT contracts (which will also mean upgrades can't take place without tearing up an existing PFiT contract...)

I'm still very happy, and am also wrapped to have been able to be involved in a couple of bulk purchase projects that have seen about 300 systems (or 900kW) get install over the last year.

Posted Monday 22 Aug 2011 @ 3:23:06 pm from IP #
Buzzman
Member

Update on my 2kW system:

Billing period: 3/5/11 - 2/8/11
Service charge: $80.28
Peak use: 492kWh (with split in tariff mid-bill) = $116.17
No off peak - instantaneous gas
Total cost: $196.45

Exported: 586kWh @ 60c/kWh = $351.60

Net credit: $179.54

Total credit over last three billing periods now up to $459.96.

Total exported = 1713kWh

Daily average = 6.2kW
[NB: Period av are 7.2kW and 6.4kW for most recent, so for 182 days av = 6.8kW/day]

Est for full year is 2482kWh or $1489.00

System cost = $4700

Payback in 3.2 years.

Tariff rose to 26.228c/kWh during current period; Service charge is now 98.004c/day.

So almost $1/day just for the privilege of being able to purchase power from the retailer!!!

Posted Sunday 28 Aug 2011 @ 7:13:55 am from IP #
dbindoff
Member

HI buzzman, can you tell me how many kwh were produced for the periods or overall or average over last 182 days, I assume exported is a nett figure?

Posted Sunday 28 Aug 2011 @ 11:30:32 am from IP #

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