Large stacker double glazed slider doors. Suggested manufacturers?

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Large stacker double glazed slider doors. Suggested manufacturers?

(27 posts) (11 voices)

Started 6 years ago by mat-with-one-t
Latest reply from peuckers

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mat-with-one-t
Member

Hi all. We are about to order windows and doors, but I have some concerns about a BIG stacker door we are planning to install. The engineering is all done, so no issues with weight. There will be one fixed panel, and 3 sliding stackers. They are BIG - 2800H x ~2000, so will be hefty (over 250kg each panel). The price, I'm afraid, is looking equally HEFTY!
I have found that many won't make panels this big.
Now, I'd looked at some "upmarket" makers, such as Paarhammer or Sustainable Construction Services (we're in Melbourne), but had considered them outa the ballpark on price. Interestingly, however, when I got a quote from a "middle range" timber group, there was perhaps only a maybe 10-15% saving to be had.
I was interesting if anyone has BIG sliding double glazed doors? I am concerned that:
- a "standard" running system won't cut it, and doors will be too heavy to budge. Will they warp over time?
- the more basic doors, when closed, only use a basic weather strip to seal between panels. This looks underdone to me, especially when we're talking big dollars for big double glazing.
- the fancier ones seem to utilise imported (German and other) "lift and slide" fancy mechanisms, and they also have locking systems that lock the panels to each other when closed (for security and weather sealing).
- fancier ones use properly thermally broken aluminium, or timber alone for frames.

Can anyone advise on knowledge or actual experience? I'd hate to blow the best part of 20k on the main feature of the house, only to wish I should have pushed the budget a further 5k!

All the best.
Mat

Posted Saturday 5 Sep 2015 @ 5:21:28 am from IP #
cava
Member

Whilst there may be alternate suppliers for glass doors/windows, unfortunately in this instance for your stacker doors, the cost really is secondary to quality. This is especially true as it is a main feature of your house.

Paarhammer is extremely good, but unfortunately expensive. On our build (yet to happen), Paarhammer quoted >$200,000 for our windows and doors so I can feel your pain!

Posted Saturday 5 Sep 2015 @ 5:47:16 am from IP #
mat-with-one-t
Member

Ouch! Yep, they were not cheap in their quotes, but when you see them in the flesh you suddenly realise how far behind we are in Aus with window design and quality! Pity I too don't have 2ook for windows!! That said, I am entertaining the idea for the biggest feature, especially as it needs to be functional over time!

Posted Saturday 5 Sep 2015 @ 5:54:55 am from IP #
pippo
Member

I had a stacker door installed last year. Six panels, fixed ends, opens in the centre. Just a baby compared to yours - panels 2200H x 950W. Bought from http://windowsbydesign.com.au in Cheltenham.

Posted Saturday 5 Sep 2015 @ 2:03:19 pm from IP #
Annette
Member

Hi Pippo

Did you get the 'Thermal Heart' thermally broken option?

What was the cost and was it for supply only or supply and install?

Posted Saturday 5 Sep 2015 @ 9:31:54 pm from IP #
pippo
Member

Annette said:
Hi Pippo

Did you get the 'Thermal Heart' thermally broken option?

What was the cost and was it for supply only or supply and install?

Ended up not getting double glazed because of cost - there were other areas to spend the money during the renovation! Paid $4,800 installed. Vaguely remember the cost being over double and do not recall if that was thermally broken or not.

Posted Sunday 6 Sep 2015 @ 6:54:15 am from IP #
mat-with-one-t
Member

I too have been constrained by price and by time! What's new. Unfortunately (in my mind) I have made a massive compromise and went with fairly standard top hung doors. Properly designed and engineered ones (lift and slide systems) added over $7k to the job!

For anyone reading this, I found out way too late that there are groups directly importing finished products from Germany with a 12 week turnaround time. Standard double glazing, low e glass, timber finish of your choice, lift and slide mechanisms (or tilt/slide) etc.
They are only a bit more expensive than bog standard windows made here, and a world away in quality and performance.

If there is ever a next time, it's a no brainer in my mind.

Dammit.

Posted Tuesday 8 Sep 2015 @ 11:31:29 pm from IP #
Annette
Member

Interesting. Though buying ready made windows from overseas does have some risks.

What companies?

Posted Wednesday 9 Sep 2015 @ 11:11:30 am from IP #
mat-with-one-t
Member

PM sent

Posted Thursday 10 Sep 2015 @ 4:35:55 am from IP #
cava
Member

mat-with-one-t said:
PM sent

I am also interested.

Posted Thursday 10 Sep 2015 @ 5:37:24 am from IP #
mat-with-one-t
Member

http://www.sustainableconstructionservices.com.au

Matthias at this company seemed really professional and knowledgeable. I just just wish I'd been onto it earlier. Need at least 12 weeks. Mat

Posted Friday 11 Sep 2015 @ 7:08:54 am from IP #
mat-with-one-t
Member

....and I've seen the threads, but I'm still confused about glass choice for these very large (mostly west) facing windows. At this stage we will go for double glazed (6mm, 12mm gap, 6mm. Argon).
- we will have external blinds to completely shade them in summer (which will come down from the eave yo the deck outside)
- the house will have all double glazing and will be well insulated
- the reason for very large mostly west facing windows is for an amazing view
- they will get hammered by afternoon sun, but there are some large trees that will help with some shade, but sadly they are slightly to the north, so they will shade much of the winter sun later in the day
- we will have hydronic heating that's as efficient as I could manage

SO:
- is there indication for low e glass here? It would represent an extra 2k. If so, what side would it go on (remember - double glazing)? On the one hand we know the summer sun would be nasty, but we will have the shade blinds. Having said that, it'd be nice not to have them down constantly in summer. On the other hand, all that glass represents a lot of potential heat loss in winter. I tried to design in heavy curtains with pelmets, but there's no space for the curtains to stack. I also can't afford amazing lift/slide filly dealing units, so I unfortunately will be expecting some draughts over time.

Thoughts?

Posted Monday 14 Sep 2015 @ 8:04:38 am from IP #
Annette
Member

Exactly how big are the windows going to be (or are they the bifolds in the first post)?

For west facing windows, definitely low e double glazed. Your window supplier (or IGU supplier) should advise on which face of the glass it goes.

Perhaps consider a tint for the west facing windows. Other wise you may have to have blinds down in summer. The warmth might be nice in winter though.

Louvres in Melbourne! Seems pointless with double glazing. I would be expecting a bit more from your architect, to be frank.

With really large windows will you find it difficult for the energy rating?

Posted Monday 14 Sep 2015 @ 1:24:03 pm from IP #
mat-with-one-t
Member

4 panels, 2800 tall and 8300 span. Stackers with one fixed panel. Double glazed (likely 6mm - 12mm argon gap - 6mm I think). From calculations I've roughly made, one pane of low e glass in each panel will add maybe $2000, so not cheap.
Question is, should I choose low-e? If so, would you place the low e pane on the inside to maintain winter warmth or outside to repel summer heat?

Posted Monday 14 Sep 2015 @ 6:19:16 pm from IP #
Bushwalker
Member

Have you investigated how air tight these windows will be?

I've seen plenty of multiple door systems, but only a couple that actually have acceptable air sealing. The only ones with effective seals were imports from EU and expensive...

It's not too good chasing double glazing and low e glass when the windows are leaking like a sieve.

Posted Monday 14 Sep 2015 @ 9:09:35 pm from IP #
mat-with-one-t
Member

Yeah I agree completely and that's my problem. Properly sealing (usually lift and slide systems) units (using Euro design and hardware) are really expensive (had quotes even over 30k for just this unit!). I'm too late to be looking to fully imported options (should have done that in retrospect). So it's down to compromise I'm afraid!

Posted Monday 14 Sep 2015 @ 11:33:19 pm from IP #
jdaley
Member

Sometimes I wonder if people have an understanding of reality and fantasy. I just do not understand why anybody needs such huge opening windows and expects them to be thermally efficient. I don't expect people to live in thermally efficient homes with few windows, but surely you are pushing the limits of reality, what is it with huge opening windows today?

Posted Saturday 3 Jun 2017 @ 11:19:31 am from IP #
dave lawrence
Member

you are encountering the most common dilemma I have seen in over 20 years of designing energy efficient houses... trying to capitalize on a stunning view (in the wrong direction) and be energy efficient, on a modest budget.
In my experience... you must choose between the two ... especially if you can't afford the better quality joinery.
OVERGLAZING is without doubt the weakest link in most houses ,even today... as numerous threads on this forum will attest.
Sounds like you may be able to minimise excessive heat loss in the summer ,but preventing massive heat loss in the winter will be challenging (to say the least).
I say redesign the house to make that view enjoyable from large west facing decks if you must, and reduce your stacker doors on to it.
i don't expect you will take this advice, but you may remember it in 2 or 3 years when the novelty of massive views wears off (it always does for the occupants ) ,and the reality of the cost of keeping it warm hits.

Posted Sunday 4 Jun 2017 @ 10:19:55 pm from IP #
jdaley
Member

Digressing from the content.
Near me a new house has been built to face a view, in a 20 acre paddock There are no windows facing the north, the solar electricity panels face SEast because a standard house design has been used. And I don't think there are any hot water collectors, yet in its location bothe would work very well if orientated correctly.

Its immoral to have biult it as is, in my view.

Posted Monday 5 Jun 2017 @ 1:21:42 am from IP #
Bindi
Member

Hi Mat,
Just wondering how you went with your big stackers?
We are wanting similiar sized stackers and we are worried they will be too heavy to
Move ect
How do you find them?

Posted Tuesday 13 Jun 2017 @ 9:51:19 am from IP #
jdaley
Member

Can I ask why?

Posted Tuesday 13 Jun 2017 @ 10:29:14 am from IP #
mat-with-one-t
Member

Pm sent to Bindi about stackers.
As for why we installed them? Well, we are in a very fortunate position that we have a block in inner Melbourne that essentially sits in a golf course and has a park out the front. The views afforded by this simply outweigh the compromises made to thermal efficiency by using glass instead of solid walls. To not do so would have been a travesty and in no way would have capitalised on the spot we have.
That said, we did what we could afford and considered all possibilities.
- in our experiences looking around, theONLY approach is to use (expensive) lift&slide locking/interlocking/sliding mech's from Europe. Everything else will leak like a sieve.
- if using aluminium it MUST be properly designed thermally broken framing, but this was REALLY expensive, so we went for cedar (each door is 90mm thick)
- glass needs to be carefully considered and double glazing a must. We got hold of software from Pilkington and ran scenarios looking at heat gain in winter/summer, winter heat loss, privacy, glare, etc. in the end we went for an outer slight reflective coat (privacy) and an inner grey tint. Spacing between panes is about sound tramission vs ideal thermal properties
- glass should be ideally protected in summer by external blinds, and heavy well pelmeted curtains should line the inside in winter
Mat

Posted Tuesday 13 Jun 2017 @ 10:48:06 am from IP #
Bindi
Member

Thank you
Yes we are looking at thermally broken and double glazed though very $$$
How easy are your doors to open and close? All our suppliers are saying our size doors are about 270kg per stacker (we are having 4) and we will struggle to open them?
I am worried we spend all this money and won't be able to open them

Thanks
Bindi

Posted Tuesday 13 Jun 2017 @ 10:55:29 pm from IP #
AndyG
Member

Bindi said:
All our suppliers are saying our size doors are about 270kg per stacker (we are having 4) and we will struggle to open them?
I am worried we spend all this money and won't be able to open them

Thanks
Bindi

I have stacker doors (AWS Slidemaster 704 with double glazed glass 2 x 6mm toughened with low e glass, 12mm argon filled gap) , however not thermally broken as the ROI just wasn't there) with each door being 3000 high x 1500 wide and my sub 54kg wife can open/close them without too much trouble, just not all at once (where I can just push/pull the three opening doors at a time)
Are they heavy? Yes and we were advised not to go wider (I originally wanted just 2 sliders plus the fixed panel, not the 3 doors plus fixed we ended up with) and in hindsight it was probably the right call at least as far as my wife opening and closing them goes.

Posted Wednesday 14 Jun 2017 @ 5:08:44 am from IP #
Bindi
Member

Thanks AndyG
I am only petite and we have 2 little girls - so we may need to rethink sizes

Posted Wednesday 14 Jun 2017 @ 5:43:21 am from IP #
JB
Member

I got a quote (as part of my house lot) for a lift and slide door 2700h x 4500w One fixed panel, one sliding door. Not that easy to slide open initially due to the weight but is very smooth once moving.

uPVC with low e, about $8.5k which I think isn't too bad. This uPVC is actually nice looking rather than plain white/ivory like most uPVC windows are.

Posted Thursday 15 Jun 2017 @ 1:14:25 pm from IP #
peuckers
Member

I'd seriously consider if you can have a separate door at one end or to a side. We have DG timber stacker doors (small compared to these, only about 2400H x 1200W, 2 sliders) but the kids have trouble opening them. Having a separate, light door would make quick trips outside easier (we couldn't fit this in our design). We also have issues with expansion over the seasons (squeaky rollers, lock not always lining up perfectly).

Posted Wednesday 21 Jun 2017 @ 1:47:48 am from IP #

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