Exciting New Internet based meter to monitor power usage and power generation.

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Exciting New Internet based meter to monitor power usage and power generation.

(19 posts) (10 voices)

Started 7 years ago by aussiesue
Latest reply from Benny

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aussiesue
Member

When I had my hybrid solar system installed a year ago (generates power for usage by the house with small battery bank to store excess and flicks to grid if batteries go down to predetermined power level) I naively assumed that it would have a way to monitor what all parts of the system were doing: generation, storage, usage from inverter and usage from mains. Not so. I have learned that it is not quite as simple as that.

I have been unable to find a single solution to the monitoring problem.

But in the process I have discovered an exciting new product: a simple elegant meter that goes a good part of the way - measuring power usage as well as generation - and more besides. One unique feature is the way it can identify the "pattern" of the power usage by individual appliances and thus tell you not just total power usage at a point in time, but can identify what appliances are on and what they are currently using.

The meter is not yet in production. Indiegogo fund raising has completed but delivery will not take place until 2016. Here is their website.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ecoisme-intelligent-energy-monitoring-system#/story

Posted Friday 3 Jul 2015 @ 4:23:41 am from IP #
Baldrick
Member

What it should be doing is reading the power directly from the Smart Meter and Inverter. To use clamps is old world tech.

IMO Smart Home Controllers will be totally wireless. That means that all controllable appliances can be controlled via IR/Wi-Fi/ZigBee interface (Tv, AV Washing Machine, Clothes Dryer, Dishwasher, Heating/Cooling, Hot Water). This means that there is little need for something that can guess if you have left the TV on in the bed room. This is because the Smart Home Controller turned it on in the first place.

I this this is aimed at the old world, as far as the new world is concerned I don't believe it will have a big future.

Posted Friday 3 Jul 2015 @ 10:39:19 pm from IP #
Annette
Member

Also, might take a bit more time than the posted ten minutes to install, in cases where the mains switch is outside the house like mine is.

However, for people who have 'old world' appliances and aren't expecting to change them anytime soon might be worth a look.

Posted Friday 3 Jul 2015 @ 10:55:17 pm from IP #
Flying high
Member

Agreed, "........, for people who have 'old world' appliances and aren't expecting to change them anytime soon might be worth a look."

Most people can't afford to upgrade all appliances at the same time.

Also, if there is still useable life in the said appliances why upgrade especially if they are already efficient?

Posted Saturday 4 Jul 2015 @ 12:56:11 am from IP #
Baldrick
Member

I'm amazed that there are people here who have TV/AV systems that are so old they don't have remote controls. You must be using a SetTop Box to get Digital TV, and they also came with remotes. So I expect that you don't have TV's.

I never suggested that anybody needs to replace all devices in their home at one time.

So for those who have a TV/AV system with a remote control and for those who have AC systems with a remote control, you have the basics of a Home Automation System. You just need to add Smart Lights like Phillips Hue etc.

Fully integrated systems are running in Germany, and being tested in South Korea & Japan.

Most modern White Goods have been designed to accept a control module, the only problem is that we don't have a standard. (Australia does have a standard but it's old and hardwired, don't think it will get much acceptance)

Note: A Remote Control on a TV/AV system is a small battery operated device that allows you to turn the TV on/off, change channels and even adjust the volume without getting off your commode.

Posted Saturday 4 Jul 2015 @ 4:49:58 am from IP #
Flying high
Member

Having a handful of remotes is hardly what one could call Home Automation...

Lazy yes...

Re the Aussie Standard, why bother, we don't seem to manufacture much here anymore. so the imported appliances will have something, it will probably end up like the HD & Blu-ray 'stoush'

In the interim, the above mentioned device may fill a void..

Posted Sunday 5 Jul 2015 @ 5:44:12 am from IP #
Baldrick
Member

Flying high said:
Having a handful of remotes is hardly what one could call Home Automation...

Lazy yes...

Correct, but once you have a remote, you can control this device remotely. It also lets you automate devices, all from your Universal Remote and/or Smart Phone. These devices now use IFTTT (If-This-Than-That) to automate tasks e.g. Turn your lights on at sunset.

Re the Aussie Standard, why bother, we don't seem to manufacture much here anymore. so the imported appliances will have something, it will probably end up like the HD & Blu-ray 'stoush'

In the interim, the above mentioned device may fill a void..

I agree that Australian Standards are useless, but at least we would have made a decision. The problem for all of the Manufactures of White Goods don't know what to do.

Posted Sunday 5 Jul 2015 @ 6:02:05 am from IP #
aggri1
Member

Hi,
The Indigogo project looks vaguely interesting, but in my view all of these systems are somehow a bit too closed or limited. So, I made my own monitor with a Raspberry Pi and a few other bits and pieces. I get data from the Smart Meter and the PV system's inverter.

Does the following link work? (sample image)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o457m0ue9pugjjf/sample_image_20150430.png?dl=0

The Daily Statistics graphs are cumulative distributions, with the dot showing the current day. It's only been gathering data since April, so there are very few high-output days (above 10kWh).

The next thing I need to figure out how to do is to talk to an air conditioner (or a heat pump). I haven't found any residential air conditioners with an advertised control interface. I want to be able to tell it to turn on when there's excess PV power generation. Any suggestions?

Cheers, A.

Posted Tuesday 7 Jul 2015 @ 2:14:31 am from IP #
sun2steam
Member

Hi aggri, this look great! How did you make the connection to the smart meter?

I am working on a similar project using Arduino and clip-on current sensors.

In addition to just measuring, the system will provide a remote output that can remotely control up to 4 power points. If the air conditioner does not have to be hard wired but can be plug-in, that would be a simple way of controlling it.

alternatively you could hack the remote control of the air conditioner and control the air conditioner from from your microcontroller.

examples:
hardware hack:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-transistor-circuit-board-for-controlling-A/

https://www.cooking-hacks.com/documentation/tutorials/control-hvac-infrared-devices-from-the-internet-with-ir-remote

software hack:
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=81997.0

Posted Tuesday 7 Jul 2015 @ 5:23:29 am from IP #
aggri1
Member

Hi sun2steam.

I'm using a Rainforest RAVEn USB device to talk to the SmartMeter. It connects using the wireless Zigbee protocol. Works reliably (once set up) with the Raspberrry Pi, and isn't dependent on the home internet router like the connection with the PV inverter. I think it may depend on your local electricity distributor though, as to whether this is even an option: I had to use the United Energy website portal thing to register the device, initially.

I'd love to hear how you're controlling power points. I haven't found any remotely controllable power points other than the radio-controlled power boards. Are you making your own with relays? I was hesitant to do that, not being an electrician myself.

Hacking the remote control seemed like a tedious way of going about controlling the AC, but I had considered it. I have come across a description on the 'net of someone doing that. I am yet hoping not to have to though...

Cheers, A.

Posted Tuesday 7 Jul 2015 @ 5:38:07 am from IP #
alfresco24
Member

This looks good, but it still needs more development and maturity before it can be called the real deal. Their approach to disaggregation is far from fool-proof and, identical methodologies (Smappee, Bidgley et al) achieve in reality between 60%-75% accurate disaggregation, even after lengthy 'training'.

The use of split-core CT's is far from old-tech, it's stronger than ever.
Modern day split-core CT's are as accurate as any 'smart-meter'. They are very reliable and require no intervention in wiring to install as many as might be wanted in a residential or commercial switchboard.

The alternative suggestion, taking data from your smart meter and/or communicating inverter and appliances is no guarantee of data accuracy.
We have found that improperly programmed smart meters as well as innacuracies are more common than you'd think.
Likewise the data put out by the logic in the Inverter is NEVER completely accurate either.
The only way to be sure that measurement of both Active and Reactive Power & Energy, and direction, is to monitor the AC wires - not the device/appliance logic.
(Smart meters do not read your Inverter - they read your wire power)

On top of that you will have (in the future) a mix of wireless WiFi and ZigBee, and IR sensors and actuators (switches/relays/remotes) as well as wired Ethernet to deal with when it comes to the many types of smart-meter and appliance interfaces. It's a dog's breakfast.

Lastly the Ecoisme needs to be always connected to the Internet is a big issue. Although they say it has now occurred to them to build in some logging and catch-up capability, it gives away their lack of thought to the whole process of delivering a bullet proof monitoring & control system.
Needing a steady state 10kb/s trickle of data is not a huge overhead (a bit over 3GB/month) but any gaps in that delivery to their cloud server will mean that your resultant disaggregation and accumulation numbers will be erroneous. And, what you can legally install and DIY in Australia is far different than most other countries.

Good luck to Ecoisme, but I'll go out on a limb and forecast their slow demise given there are plenty of competitors at a better price point and reliable proven performance on the global stage.

Posted Tuesday 7 Jul 2015 @ 5:43:35 am from IP #
sun2steam
Member

For the Arduino you can find sketches (= programs or apps) that do it for you.
First you analyze what the original remote control is doing, then you use the code to control the remote controlled power points via a radio emitter (about 1 to 3 dollars for sender+receiver) connected to Arduino. There should also be something similar be available for the Raspberrry Pi.

The second link in my first post under hardware hack might be working for you. It is mimicking the IR remote control for an air conditioner. If your the Raspberry Pi is in a different room you could have another the Raspberry Pi or an Arduino (cheaper) connected wirelessly to you main controller to act as the IR remote control.

Posted Tuesday 7 Jul 2015 @ 5:52:49 am from IP #
Baldrick
Member

aggri1 said:
I want to be able to tell it to turn on when there's excess PV power generation. Any suggestions?

Cheers, A.

With some of the Smart Home Controller in Germany they would monitor Solar PV output and turn on the Boost element for the Hydronic Heating. The first problem they had was that the relay could site there Chattering (Clouds). If they stop it chattering by having a minimum on time they had another problem. The customer got a shock on their bill, as there was a lot of peak power usage.

They solved this problem with two approaches:

o Insolation Forecasts. The German version of our Bureau of Meteorology (BOM) provides a forecast of insolation for the next 10 minutes via an Internet connection for a Post Code. The controller simply pings BOM and makes a decision.

o Demand Management. Power Distributors would provide a Cheap Rate signal to selected customers via the Smart Meter (Hardwired Internet connection). This would notify them that for the next 30 minutes peak rates have now been reduced to Off-Peak rates. This has proved very useful because in Germany Peak Solar Generation from PV occurs at low demand times (Summer).

So the answer is simple, it can be done, but you need the infrastructure from a Smart Grid to make it viable.

Posted Tuesday 7 Jul 2015 @ 7:40:32 am from IP #
sun2steam
Member

It can also be done in other ways.

This is about semi DIY energy monitors and power diverters using Aduino or Pi: http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/

And this is some more specific information related to energy diverters: http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/Choosing%20an%20Energy%20Diverter

Posted Wednesday 8 Jul 2015 @ 11:33:44 pm from IP #
Westmeath
Member

alfresco24 said:
This looks good, but it still needs more development and maturity before it can be called the real deal. Their approach to disaggregation is far from fool-proof and, identical methodologies (Smappee, Bidgley et al) achieve in reality between 60%-75% accurate disaggregation, even after lengthy 'training'.

....

there are plenty of competitors at a better price point and reliable proven performance on the global stage.

Can people please suggest more reliable, proven monitors available now? Would prefer a unit with wifi/internet access, but not essential.

I have 3 phase with solar, but no smart meter like they have in VIC (I am in regional NSW). Like the idea of the Smappee, but having read other reports of it lacking when it comes to identifying individual items, I am a bit reluctant to spend nearly $400 plus installation costs when the reliability is in question.

Posted Tuesday 21 Jul 2015 @ 1:54:49 am from IP #
Solgen
Member

I know the Efergy monitors only monitor kVA not kW but they give a reasonable indication of power use particularly at what times power is being used.
The E2 and E2 Classic are currently on special at Masters Hardware Store at Chullora for $40 and $50(USB port model), which is around $20 to $30 less than elsewhere.
I think this price is only available at the Chullora store.

Posted Tuesday 21 Jul 2015 @ 3:51:56 am from IP #
Westmeath
Member

Thanks for the Efergy info.

I am hoping for a device that is smarter than that, which is why the Smappee interests me.

I use about 30 kWh per day, with a combined shopfront (old rev cycle air con & lots of LED lighting) and residence (also rev cycle air con) as well as a 120 sq m workshop (with high intensity fluro lighting). I am wanting to reduce my usage. Presently have a 6.08 kW solar setup.

Would really like to find a device that can recognise at least the higher power consuming devices. Yes, I suppose it can be done by isolation testing. I may have to choose that method (with Efergy or similar) if I can't find a smart enough and reliable enough energy monitor. Must be capable of monitoring 3 phase and Solar.

Would be interested in feedback from any Smappee users, please ? Have been wondering if it might improve with more firmware/software updates. http://www.smappee.com/au/

The Ecoisme device sounds similar but a bit immature or possibly needing more development.

Posted Tuesday 21 Jul 2015 @ 4:56:13 am from IP #
alfresco24
Member

Westmeath, a colleague installed Smapee in his large all-electric Sydney home and we spent some time evaluating it for competitive analysis purposes. I'm going to be re-installing it in my place next week for a second scenario comparison.
It's ability to disaggregate is ok up to a point. We found it to be easily confused with similar power level & reactive power appliances/circuits. It was confused by the 2 fridges and one freezer, by the stove top and a radiant heater, and a few other similar footprint applicances.
Having said that we found it to be overall pretty good ans gave it a 75% confidence rating.
I think it would be perfectly fine for most apartment or unit dwellers and give perhaps 90% confident disaggregation.
Hard to say how it would track in your described application given that you have 3-phase as well as Solar PV, but you would need to add all the sensors needed for 3-phase and the PV would need a separate sensor/smapee. By the time you did all that you'd have spent quite a bit of money and still have 10%-25% probability uncertainty.
If you're not a DIY and can't adopt multi-circuit Arduino or Raspberry and the database management they need over time, then regret that the best way to lick this problem is with a system like SolarAnalytics.com.au
A 3-phase + PV consumption + generation system will set you back $600-$800
Splash Monitoring, and Saturn South are other alternatives but they all have their limitations and costs. Expect to pay about $100 to $150 per monitored circuit/phase.

Posted Friday 24 Jul 2015 @ 2:11:54 am from IP #
Benny
Member

Westmeath - do you want to do this type of analysis continually or just as a one-off to work out how much each appliance is using ? If the latter have you considered using a logger on your smart meter ( I presume it has a flashing LED indicating power use ?) I use one for audit work and count the number of flashes each 1 or 2 minutes. Import data in to a spreadsheet and chart in Excel. to show the load profile. By knowing what is turned on when, you can do the "disaggregation" and get a pretty good estimate of energy distribution. See standby, AC's cycling on and off etc. My logger cost $110 + $3 for photosensor.

Posted Friday 24 Jul 2015 @ 9:02:00 am from IP #

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