Climate sceptics enter wind farm debate
BY BEN CUBBY AND JOSEPHINE TOVEY
20 Dec, 2011 04:00 AM
This is a must read and will make you so despondent.
Canberra Times is the link below.
http://tinyurl.com/76yms44
"Climate sceptics enter wind farm debate" POLITICIANS!!!
(13 posts) (8 voices)-
Posted Wednesday 21 Dec 2011 @ 10:08:37 am from IP #
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Whether I agree or not, I think it is good to get differing viewpoints which goes to make the debate more inclusive.
Posted Wednesday 21 Dec 2011 @ 10:49:35 am from IP # -
The article missed using one of the critical elements of skeptics debating methods. Never mind.
The climate change denying astroturfer's handbook.
Rule 9.
Try at every opportunity to link those who accept the scientific consensus with religious fundamentalists. Reframe their arguments in the language of religion.Posted Wednesday 21 Dec 2011 @ 7:06:26 pm from IP # -
In Scotland wind energy is set to be the major contributor to 100% renewable power by 2020.
Posted Thursday 22 Dec 2011 @ 5:48:01 pm from IP # -
Yea, I know. Having walked through Scotland, I can tell you that this is one thing that tears me apart. The sacrifice of the beauty of the Scottish hillsides to freaking windfarms...
Argh!!!
Posted Thursday 22 Dec 2011 @ 10:22:41 pm from IP # -
lets just bung a couple of second hand japanese reactors there instead know which way gets my vote
Posted Friday 23 Dec 2011 @ 10:56:23 am from IP # -
If you read the Beyond Zero Emissions (BZE) paper from their web site there is a blueprint for a sustainable Australia. It does not mean foreign made and uneconomic supplied wind farms next to people's homes, it talks of building an Australian industry. This does not mean tax dodging power companies, but real infrastructure been built on a large scale. Wind farms in Australia do not need to be near peoples homes as are the current neighbour hood destroying inefficient small scale wind farms are located. If we have wind farms as in BZE we could be a long way to a sustainable country. Forget tax dodges and profiteering carbon markets, just build infrastructure using Australian industry, like we once did.
The Federal Government instead of using markets and tax dodges needs to build infrastructure to make us sustainable. Twelve large scale concentrated wind farms 10's of kilometres from people's home with a mix solar (Thermal) power stations using existing technology would reduce our dependance on non renewable power. It all can be done for $36B in less than 10 years using Australian Industry and money taken from energy subsidies to coal, gas and foreign owned wind farms.
Only uninformed people would want us to be part of the nuclear industry, the outdated nuclear industry that makes both weapons and waste that threaten our future.Posted Tuesday 27 Dec 2011 @ 9:06:19 pm from IP # -
" It all can be done for $36B in less than 10 years using Australian Industry and money taken from energy subsidies to coal, gas and foreign owned wind farms. "
I only read the synopsis but that seems to say 36Billion _per annum_ for 10 years.
Better to be doing that though than peeing it away the way they are on say the NBN, or subsidies to miners or whatever else suits their paymasters today.
The problem is that if the government got to run it they would immediately appoint a cabinet minister, form an "office of BZE" , rent a large expensive building in Canberra, and fill it with thousands of overpaid underworked public servants, who would organise meetings to discuss agendas for possible plans .......... just like they did when Kev decided he was going to have an emissions trading scheme in fact. Hmmm wonder what _they_ are all doing at the moment.
On the other hand if its left to private industry then they would be looking to maximise their profit (quite reasonably) and the numbers (well in the précis anyway) do not appear to take this into account. Oh and on the "reducing global CO2 emissions" front the people who "own" Australian Coal and Gas resources would be looking for new markets for their product which they _will_ find even if they have to drop their prices a bit.
The jobs figures in this report also look very encouraging ....... until you realise that there is no mechanism to ensure that these jobs will occur here rather than say China or elsewhere.
And its tragic ! because this sort of BZE thing would be totally beneficial for Australia. Look at the aluminium industry in France courtesy of the cheap electricity the smelters there can purchase for example. There could be heaps of similar effects here.
Sadly that would require vision boldness and efficiency - factors totally lacking in government of any flavour at any level, and the size of the project is such that its probably too large for private industry.
Sorry.
Posted Wednesday 28 Dec 2011 @ 7:14:07 am from IP # -
Gazmo88 "The problem is that if the government got to run it they would immediately appoint a cabinet minister, form an "office of BZE" , rent a large expensive building in Canberra, and fill it with thousands of overpaid underworked public servants, who would organise meetings to discuss agendas for possible plans"
We are doing SFA in Australia on a national basis. The current situation reminds me firmly of the Murray Darling Basin Commission. The MDBC had a firm policy among staff if they never ever did anything they could not be accused of failing - and consequently they did nothing that achieved anything. The MDBC would get up at public meetings and talk about the money they were spending on solutions, but the money got spent on consultants and more consultants and never dealing with any of the fundamental issues on the ground that could have been addressed. The solutions were often not expensive or rocket science, but nobody was prepared to say the "buck stops here and I will take responsibility for this project and do something".
This is a good article following. Demonstrates how plain bloody weak and useless we are in Australia today. We used to be a country that kicked a.., and now we are country that licks a..
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/eyes-german-renewable-energy-efforts-085324699.htmlPosted Friday 30 Dec 2011 @ 4:59:39 am from IP # -
Reminds me of a poem.
The Parable of Responsibility
Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody were members of a group. There was an important job to do and Everybody was asked to do it. Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it. Anybody would have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry because it was Everybody’s job. Everybody thought Anybody would do it, but Nobody realized that Anybody wouldn’t do it. It ended up that Everybody, blamed Somebody, when Nobody did, what Anybody could have done.
Unknown author of condensed version of Charles Osgood’s –A Poem About Responsibility.
So I'm busy doing what anybody can do. Another 1kW of solar going on the roof.
Posted Friday 30 Dec 2011 @ 5:09:44 am from IP # -
"We are doing SFA in Australia on a national basis."
Totally agree.
Where's the leadership from our "leaders" ? On any topic frankly. Swallowed by wedge politics and soundbites.
Anybody got a vision that goes beyond the next election ? Hardly.
The only really good news is that politicians don't actually run the country. Or do anything of any consequence at all. Not really.
In the UK they had a good idea. Any petition (including electronic ones) with more than 10000 (?) votes has to be debated in parliament (after which the pollies can presumably ignore it). Its a start.
The "system" really needs to change though.
In the meantime I can only ensure that my new house is as sustainable as possible within my budgetary and site constraints. Sadly "sustainable" is still far more expensive than disposable.
Posted Saturday 31 Dec 2011 @ 6:51:23 am from IP # -
The anti-wind farm movement that is gaining influence within the NSW parliament is being ''aided and abetted'' by climate sceptic groups and some mining industry figures.
Posted Saturday 31 Dec 2011 @ 10:10:57 am from IP # -
" The anti-wind farm movement that is gaining influence within the NSW parliament is being ''aided and abetted'' by climate sceptic groups and some mining industry figures. "
Your evidence ??
Posted Sunday 1 Jan 2012 @ 9:53:04 pm from IP #