Sounds promising
http://exchange.telstra.com.au/2015/01/20/solar-energy-in-a-bottle/
Telstra solar hydrogen fuel cell
(16 posts) (8 voices)-
Greg
MemberYes, hydrogen generation, storage and use appeals to me greatly. If more of these systems were in use they might eventually get cheap enough for domestic use.
One gent has done this in the US bottling his spare generation capacity as hydrogen for use in winter but still cusp stuff.
Posted Tuesday 20 Jan 2015 @ 9:38:42 pm from IP # -
Lance
Key MasterThe problem with this system is that they are using PVs to electrolise water to produce the hydrogen, a relatively inefficient process, then storing it and feeding it through a fuel cell when needed. Overall, the cycle is less than 50% efficient, and it is really just a replacement for a battery. The whole system is far more expensive, complex and less efficient than any battery, using such a system makes no sense that I can see. Or am I missing something?
Posted Tuesday 20 Jan 2015 @ 10:25:22 pm from IP # -
Adamc73
MemberFrom an interview in 2013
"
The carrier's director of asset and facilities management, John Romano, said today Telstra has included fuel cell technology as the standard back-up power source for sites that consume less than 5 kiloWatts an hour.The telco has spent the past several months testing the efficacy of fuel cells at several base stations, including one in Tasmania where mains power to the site was recently cut off by a lightning strike.
"[The fuel cell] meant that we were able to keep the base station running for over two days – more than six times longer than a battery-based back-up system [would have allowed]," Romano said."This was particularly advantageous to us as the AC rectifier [damaged by the lightning strike] couldn't be fixed straight away and parts had to be brought in from another location."
Posted Tuesday 20 Jan 2015 @ 11:50:22 pm from IP # -
dlvb19
MemberLance,
I was under the impression that people HOPED to use hydrogen as inter-seasonal storage.
Eg. Generate hydrogen using PV watts during summer and store in an array of pressure tanks - then run it back through the FC in winter for some much needed juice.Batteries are no good for inter-seasonal storage - unless of course you have lots of them - even then you have a certain amount of self discharge and the anodes/cathodes don't appreciate above 80% full capacity for long periods of time.
However the economics of the former system are vital - I suspect you would be MUCH better off with a larger PV array and a few extra batteries.
Posted Wednesday 21 Jan 2015 @ 2:37:10 am from IP # -
wlb
Memberdlvb19 said:
Lance,I was under the impression that people HOPED to use hydrogen as inter-seasonal storage.
Eg. Generate hydrogen using PV watts during summer and store in an array of pressure tanks - then run it back through the FC in winter for some much needed juice.Batteries are no good for inter-seasonal storage - unless of course you have lots of them - even then you have a certain amount of self discharge and the anodes/cathodes don't appreciate above 80% full capacity for long periods of time.
However the economics of the former system are vital - I suspect you would be MUCH better off with a larger PV array and a few extra batteries.
The biggest problem is that hydrogen is so difficult to store (as a gas) in any significant quantity. It's difficult to compress and you don't get very much into a cylinder. Until they development an improved adsorption method, it isn't going to be very practical other than in specialist applications like this one.
Posted Wednesday 21 Jan 2015 @ 5:44:36 am from IP # -
Adamc73
MemberI'm guessing you could use excess power from a grid tie system and instead of the 6 cent feed in tariff you would get a tank full of hot water and some hydrogen to use in the fuel cell from 6-8 at night when the suns finished for the day and demand for power in the home is high . 8 hours of back up power would be pretty handy too!
Posted Wednesday 21 Jan 2015 @ 7:06:54 am from IP # -
Lance
Key MasterThe storage capacity of these systems is no more than a typical battery bank, they are no good for inter-seasonal storage, you need a large tank and high pressure compressor for that, all very expensive and energy hungry.
All of the suggestions still fall foul of the same issue - efficiency is low and price is high compared to batts. There is simply no reason to install such a system over a battery bank, it has no advantages and multiple disadvantages.
Posted Wednesday 21 Jan 2015 @ 7:41:41 am from IP # -
Lance
Key MasterSim, you can't make a statement like that if you don't give details to back it up! Batteries are simple, robust, well understood, require minimal maintenance, don't require you to store explosive, corrosive gases at high pressure, need no compressor pumps or fuel cell membranes etc that need to be replace, the list goes on. There is no advantage of such a fuel cell system over batteries unless it either has long term storage or has access to external fuel sources, neither of which are the case for this system.
My main take on these sorts of units is that you have a company that is all hyped up about hydrogen (there have been many over the years, most have gone bust), they produce a product with the money from govt or investors who believe the hype and understand nothing about hydrogen fuel cycles, they then market this product to CEOs and company managers who also know just as little about hydrogen and still think it's sexy. After the systems start giving problems, they get replaced with batteries and written off as a bad investment or whatever. Eventually they run out of companies to buy the product and the system manufacturer either restructures or goes under.
Of course, I might just be being cynical, but that seems to be the cycle that touters of hydrogen systems have gone through in the last 20 or so years...
Posted Wednesday 21 Jan 2015 @ 10:27:36 pm from IP # -
Morbo
Memberbatteries well understood you say. I remember that lady in Knox with her sustainable house. One of the batteries in her battiery bank failed, took the sparky (acclaimed PV specialist)1 day to find, which one. Don't think, he charged $20 an hr. And how long would a non off grid sparky take to find the faulty battery? Good luck then, when you are off grid, the generator goes to meltdown.
Posted Saturday 24 Jan 2015 @ 7:57:53 pm from IP # -
sim
MemberBenny said:
Sim - until you do give comments to back up your claim, I'm sorry but your claim is worthless. Just an empty statement. Why can't you give comments ?Let's just say I'm not authorized to speak on the topic but I have been closely involved with the said project(s).
Posted Monday 26 Jan 2015 @ 11:38:54 pm from IP # -
Greg
MemberNew advance in Hydrogen generation via biological rather than electrical
http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/articles/2015/04/040715-cals-hydrogen.html
Posted Saturday 11 Apr 2015 @ 7:19:10 am from IP # -
Greg
MemberThis sounds rather amazing.
http://cellaenergy.com/first-solid-state-hydrogen-uav-flight-with-cella-material/Posted Tuesday 9 Feb 2016 @ 3:12:44 am from IP #
