Does anyone know of any Australian homes with buried pipe passive cooling or earth tubes? By this I mean pipes buried in a cool place in the garden that feed cool air into the home. I'm looking for an example for ReNew magazine at the moment.
Thanks all
Jacinta
Buried pipe cooling
(29 posts) (18 voices)-
jacintac
MemberPosted Tuesday 6 Oct 2009 @ 5:59:36 am from IP # -
I am not sure about ground pipe cooling systems, but I did some experiments using misting nozzle for the same effect. At expense of just 6 liters of water an hour it can decrease air temperature by 10 to 15 degree. I used it in conjunction with fan forced air or even outside at the patio. Misting nozzle was slightly better quality that one sold in Bunnigs. I used brass fog .5mm nozzle or 0.2mm stainless steel with ceramic insert. It was during extreme heat wave in Melbourne last year. Even my doberman dog Monty enjoyed fresh air spending most of the time under nozzle. Setup was made of: nozzle, 5m long plastic 4mm pipe attached to garden tap. Evaporating mist/fog consume energy decreasing surrounding air temperature in instant. Costs about $20
Posted Tuesday 6 Oct 2009 @ 11:48:30 am from IP # -
Jacinta,
I haven't done one myself, though it has been discussed on a couple of projects. Gut feeling is that it would be easiest on a decent slope, so the risk of water causing issues in the air ducts was avoided. Venting warmed air out the top of multi-level houses so as to draw fresh air in through the cool heavily massed lower level structure certainly works well - and the buried duct is an extension of the concept.
In cold climates (ie Canada) they use the buried ducts to pre-warm the ventilation air.
I know that Peter Stutchbury has incorporated buried air duct systems into designs for larger buildings, not sure about houses though. stutchburyandpape.com.au/
Posted Tuesday 6 Oct 2009 @ 11:51:21 pm from IP # -
As with any commercial air conditioning system one more aspect should be taken into consideration, I think. If unused for long time, underground pipes may create perfect habitat for growing molds and spores. Then turn on hot season spray to unsuspected people, biological agents may cause real harm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionellosis
For the very same reason I used only fresh, quality water from domestic pressure for my misting aparatus. Some other devices may use container and pressure pump. In my opinion that is very hard assure sterility of standing water in container in hot climate (impossible unless spraying boiling water?).
Posted Wednesday 7 Oct 2009 @ 12:42:39 am from IP # -
wbdeejay
MemberAt sustainable house day recently, Ada St Adelaide renovation of old cottage has underground pipes feeding cool air into house via various floor vents. Perhaps you can contact the owners (David if I recall correctly) through the organisers somehow.
http://www.shmeco.com/shmeco-story/157/Sustainable-House-Day-Adelaide-SA/
From what I've read, the humidity/mould issues can apply in humid climates but seems to be in-practice less of a concern than it is in theory. I believe this system would be ideal for a dry city like Adelaide, so I am planning on doing this with an extension to my home but struggling to find quality information other than very general rules-of-thumb. Would appreciate it if you could keep me in touch as you progress.
Also, does anyone remember within the last year in Adelaide we had someone give a talk on this sort of system using corrugated/flexible plastic pipes? I don't recall who it was.
Posted Wednesday 7 Oct 2009 @ 1:06:48 am from IP # -
dymonite69
MemberNatural convection system such as earth cooling tubes, solar chimneys and downdraft towers makes for interesting reading but the number of successful systems are hard to find. Most of the published research is from overseas and often once off designs for different climates. If you were to embark on the project, I would proceed with caution. It is possible to develop a design that performs poorly and at worst poison your air quality.
The concept works in theory but you need some hard data for your particular climate and geographical location to develop a working system. I believe the Ada Street residence in Adelaide was designed by Energy Architecture and is fairly new. It would be best to know the short and long term impact of a given system.
Unfortunately the expertise is limited for any given locale in Australia. It is likely you would need an engineer to offer consultancy on the project. You are venturing into new territory. The results could vary from fabulous to a complete white elephant.
Here is a useful link on the subject:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Cooling/EarthtubeNotes.htm
Posted Wednesday 7 Oct 2009 @ 1:20:33 am from IP # -
jacintac
MemberThanks all for the comments on buried pipe cooling, especially the words of warning regarding air quality and health. I'll look into the Ada St home in Adelaide - it was featured in Sanctuary but it would be good to publish an article that goes into more depth about the buried pipe system. There's also a home with a buried pipe systen in Castlemaine that I'm trying to get contact details for. Will keep you posted.
Wbdeejay I don't think you're alone when you say you want information, the ATA has had a few requests for buried pipe cooling info. Not sure, but the talk in Adelaide might have been Don Westlake of Earthwise Solar. I understand he gave a talk to the ATA Adelaide branch that might have covered this topic?
Posted Wednesday 7 Oct 2009 @ 3:51:01 am from IP # -
I have a system "sola_venti" that I intend to install in one of our 65 sq.metre cottages before summer. It is a low air flow system that draws air in thru a manifold with about 20x10 metre tubes under ground to another manifold which then vents into the room via a 12 volt fan that draws the air thru. As I said I need to get cracking and install the system before summer, so I can't really say how effective it will be.
Posted Wednesday 7 Oct 2009 @ 4:47:29 am from IP # -
Liss
MemberAbut 6 or 7 years ago my husband and I had a look at some houses open for Solar House Day. There was one place in Ironbank in the Adelaide Hills that had a sort of cooling pipe system set up. I don't remember the name but the bloke worked at the CSIRO.
We also have plans for cooling tubes for the house we're building in about a year; we used web sites and supposition to design the system, but nothing concrete we can actually show you.Posted Wednesday 7 Oct 2009 @ 6:38:33 am from IP # -
This is my 1st post, but I recall watching this thing on ABC1 a month or so ago, and thought this might be of interest. It was also on Foxtel's lifestyle channel and it would seem it came from Discovery initially.
In it there was a bit about a misting system which cooled the area down significantly.
http://planetgreen.discovery.com/tv/worlds-greenest-homes/green-home-sonoran-desert.htmlNot sure if this helps?
Posted Wednesday 7 Oct 2009 @ 11:42:18 am from IP # -
dymonite69
MemberYou may wish to consider this as well:
http://www.emilis.sa.on.net/e10_fram.htm
This architect has built a few.
Posted Wednesday 7 Oct 2009 @ 12:05:34 pm from IP # -
tarx
MemberFirst post, signed up to have a look for info on this and a day before this had been kicked off, serendipity.
I saw something on the on the Channel 4's 'Grand Designs' in particular
The system used
I contacted the Australian 'branch' and didn't get too far but if more people show interest maybe. . .
Hope this keeps the ball rolling and this can move forward as it seems a simple and good idea.
Posted Wednesday 7 Oct 2009 @ 9:09:32 pm from IP # -
dymonite69
MemberGeothermal heating and cooling can mean three different things.
1) Earth tubes - buried only about 3 metres into the cooler earth surface. They are simple ground to air convection system that allows the heat of intake air to be absorbed into the earth before entering the building. They can be drawn via natural convection or driven by a fan. The materials are comparatively cheap compared to the cost of excavation
2) Ground-source heat pump - special heat exchange pipe that penetrates the earth to about 10 metres where temperatures are usually stabilised year round. This circulates a liquid either refrigerant or water that equilibrates with the sub-surface temperature. This is then coupled with a heat pump. The Co-efficient of performance is better than an air source heat pump (i.e. air con) because the temperature gradient is narrower between the sub-surface and house interior. The output of the heat pump can be used to condition air (like a normal air con) or water (for hydronic systems). These systems can provide heating or cooling. They are more complex and quite expensive compared to standard systems (double). They can work up to twice as efficiently as a normal air con. The Grand Designs program featured this as a hydronic system (note that the guy worked in that industry so he probably did it at least cost). The ATA has an article on the technology;
http://www.ata.org.au/wp-content/uploads/99_ground_source_heat_pumps.pdf
3) True geothermal power - involved drilling to several hundred metres near tectonic plates. The subterranean system is very hot and this is generally used to generate electricity by heating water into steam and driving turbines. However, heat liquid can also be circulated for a hydronic radiator. This system is usually for commercial or industrial applications.
Posted Wednesday 7 Oct 2009 @ 11:44:00 pm from IP # -
alfresco24
MemberHi jacintac
The house at 21 Ada St, Adelaide is a good example of what you're searching for and you can see some info at the owners web site.
http://www.energyarchitecture.com.au/gallery/residential/urban/21_ada_street/
If you're in Adelaide then Eckermann Plumbing are one enterprise that can do it reliably for you.
CORRECTION: Eckermann specialise in hydronic in-slab heating (cooling) but they did all the plumbing for 21 Ada St and have significant exposure to cool-air pipe methodology.
Paul.Posted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 7:04:18 am from IP # -
Merv
MemberJacintac, try contacting the Department of Innovation Industry and Regional Development 121 Exhibition St Melbourne, they run a program called Four Seasons Heating and Cooling, which provided assistance to install in buried pipe heating and cooling for commercial and domestic premises.
Posted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 10:27:14 pm from IP # -
South Texas Connection
MemberJust my two cents from S. Texas. If you take 6" drain pipe - lay in ground bout 6' feet(2m)down & make a series of runs that fold back on themselves about 1/2m apart. Make several runs as the more runs you have the longer the time to travel from one end to the other. Oh,use a reducer from 6" to 2" for the pipes into the house & turn the ends up to help expel the air in the pipe. Glue it all together with no leaks, OK.. Now to get away from the "Mold & Mildue" issue, fill with water with some bleach in it. Water is 700 times as dense as air,so then use a pump to circulate the water from the pipe system through a radiator and let a fan pull air through the radiator. Car radiator would work. The water will circulate through the 6" pipe slower & have more time to cool. Over a short time the water will cool to ground temp. and then == enjoy..
South Texas Connection I'm here(Corpus Christi, Texas)Posted Wednesday 14 Oct 2009 @ 4:08:29 pm from IP # -
South Texas Connection
MemberThis is a closed system folks. The water coming from the radiator is sent back into the underground pipe for recirculation & recooling. Got ahead of myself.. left that out.. Hope everyone can follow this..........
South Texas ConnectionPosted Wednesday 14 Oct 2009 @ 4:14:26 pm from IP # -
Hello All,
I am not sure but you can browse this, http://www.outbackwatertanks.com.au/ hope this will help you out.
Keep Sharing & Reading
Posted Wednesday 14 Oct 2009 @ 6:30:49 pm from IP # -
Hi there.
I am new on this site. I have been researching earth tubes for a year. I have a research report to write for my last year of school. While I am a full time student, I'm not a typical one since I am 42 years old.The premise of my research was to look at the feasability of using earth tubes for cooling purposes. As part of my project I built a small system using corrugated big "o" pipes, my run was 90 feet and I buried the pipes at a depth of 4 feet and 6 feet. I wanted to measure the effects this system would have at the lesser depth in order to see how well they would work. The reason I didn't go so deep was that in Canada, our footings in residential construction are 3-4 feet deep.
Anyways, I have lots of temperature data from the project, both with a fan for the system and without. My blog can be viewed at: http://aret2220carrier.blogspot.com/
Posted Thursday 1 Sep 2011 @ 3:25:31 pm from IP # -
jdaley
MemberI have been expierimenting and studying natural airflow systems for homes. From memory David Holmgren has one at a house in Daylesford. I am building in a forest out of Bendigo, the ground is flat hard and stoney.
In the middle east roof vent sizing equates to about 20% of the floor area, which seems extreme, but they have been doing this for a long time. There are many other factors involved, drawing air through humid areas or over ponds, having very think walls with limited sun on them to help keep them cool. these issues all work together for a result.
Thus far I too have found limited documentation of anything from Australia, a cool cupboard with small pipes to keep veges cool is vastly different from cooling a whole house.
Fot the record I am creating a safari roof over the existing roof with an air gap and sheet insulation to cool the external roof, I can lower its temperature from 76 to 40 degrees in one hit.
That reduces the heat load, then I have built a tower section in the structure rising 2m higher than the main roof with an opening 1.8 x .8M which I can open and close.
I have found I can create a good breeze through the small house once the sun has gone down.Posted Saturday 10 Sep 2016 @ 8:50:22 am from IP # -
cava
MemberI am certainly interested in tunnel conditioning airspace, and have also been considering the safari roof concept.
However, and possibly where I differ, is that I am concerned if the climate cools appreciably rather than heating up for extended periods, how does one keep a conditioned airspace warm using this technology?
Posted Saturday 10 Sep 2016 @ 9:50:20 am from IP # -
jdaley
MemberI guess for a start it depends on your location. I am the Bendigo region, hot dry summers.
My view is to build for what is needed now, rather than guess the future, your work can always be undone and altered.
Underground technology works with the cooler earth, such a process would not be able to heat a home in a cool area. But use of heat banks in the same soil to heat homes occurs now.
What are your circumstances with relation to location and plans?Posted Sunday 11 Sep 2016 @ 12:01:00 am from IP # -
jdaley
MemberIts easier with a north facing block bigger than a suburban house block.
Underground structures are best to hold heat.
Glass house built across front.
Heat bank to hold heat drawn from the ground with heat pumps.
Small is beautiful and easier to manage.
Rocket stove furniture may help. depending on how cold you think it will go, but any of these ideas are good for now anyway.Posted Tuesday 13 Sep 2016 @ 9:36:45 pm from IP # -
neil_w
MemberHi. I live in Brisbane. We are about to build a new house and I'm exploring the buried pipe cooling/earth tubes as a source of cooling our house in summer. Has anyone used these methods in Brisbane/Queensland where it's humid. I am wondering how to filter the air being blown into to pipes and also how to prevent mould etc forming inside the pipes. Any condensation forming should be able to be dealt with quite easily I imagine, by having an exit point at the lowest point in the pipe. What size does the electric motor need to be to force the air into the house for the other end of the pipe? What pipe diameter and length should be used? We live on 1.5 acres so distance horizontally won't be an issue.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
NeilPosted Wednesday 16 Nov 2016 @ 1:18:29 am from IP # -
jdaley
MemberThere are many room or building air filters made that would suit this purpose, just search for same.
Mould is not an issue if it can drain without intervention by person kind.Look at Evaporative coolers for fan / electric motor sizes.
Sizing is based on many things, I have researched it in the past and its been easy to determine.
You start with volume of air required, select a low air speed and then using mathematics determine pipe diameters.
You could look at an heat pump using the ground as the source of heat / cool and a solar panel to generate power for the heat pump.
I will look through my notes for my data.Posted Wednesday 16 Nov 2016 @ 7:03:13 am from IP # -
jdaley
Memberlook at this for overall info, it shows how difficult it maybe in your area.
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/E/AE_earth_cooling_tube.htmlPosted Wednesday 16 Nov 2016 @ 7:05:59 am from IP #
