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Flickering LED Downlights

(10 posts) (7 voices)

Started 7 years ago by fgmuller@post.harvard.edu
Latest reply from fgmuller@post.harvard.edu

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fgmuller@post.harvard.edu
Member

I recently installed three Domus TEK-10 LED downlights (full kit including transformer) replacing existing halogen downlights. I also replaced the existing dimmer with a Domus EV-Dimmer because the lighting store, the Domus website and the LED Benchmark website all indicated that dimming would work with the two in combination.

Unfortunately, the lights are flickering intermittently in the evenings. The flickering occurs regardless of whether and how much the lights are dimmed — and it is very distracting. There is a pattern to the flickering, with it starting from 10pm and recurring every 15 minutes, with each flickering session lasting from around 30 seconds to several minutes.

I like the lights and had them installed as an initial test with the plan to then replace many more halogens throughout our home. However, clearly the flickering is unacceptable and I need to solve this problem before switching my home over to LEDs.

Domus has now acknowledged that the flickering is caused by a ripple signal sent periodically by my local distributor Ausgrid to control off-peak devices. They claim it isn't a fault in the light fixture and have suggested I take the issue up with Ausgrid. They even suggest that Ausgrid may be able to recommend a potential solution such as installing a ripple signal line filter which would solve the problem for all affected devices not just LED lighting. But I don't have any other devices affected in this way.

This seems like a cop out to me. My electrician advises that Ausgrid having been using ripple signals for many years and Domus indeed referred me to a website indicating that it is a common practice of electricity distributors in NSW and parts of Queensland.

The purpose of this post is to start a discussion on this issue and to seek solutions. Have other ATA Forum members experienced the same problem and with which makes/models of LEDs? Is it a common problem with LEDs currently on the market or a unique flaw in the Domus lights (which are a hot selling brand in Sydney at the moment). What views do others have on the suggestion that I seek solutions from Ausgrid?

Posted Monday 22 Dec 2014 @ 4:40:33 am from IP #
johnmath
Member

I think the difficulty is that the effect of the ripple signals can be site specific. In other words, it might affect you but not your neighbour, due to the peculiarities of distribution networks and consumer loads. In an ideal world the lights would be perfectly immune, but they simply may not cope in your installation even though down the road they work fine.

I would be kindly asking the supplier of the lights if they have an alternative brand, or if you really like them, ask the electricity distributor if they can offer a filtering solution. See page 14:

http://www.ausgrid.com.au/~/media/Files/Network/Documents/NS%20and%20NUS/NS238.pdf

Posted Monday 22 Dec 2014 @ 5:36:48 am from IP #
pjvanoort
Member

I installed 32 Domus LED lights in our apartment, mostly new wiring, and most of the lights on the Domus LED dimmer.
The symptoms the original poster mentioned are experienced in our home too.

However, the one Domus light that is not dimmed is unaffected. We also have an undimmed LED pendent light which is unaffected.

We also have a UPS backup between a GPO and our computers. This device will trip into action during the more severe flickering sessions.

All dimmed lights (on different switches) flicker exactly the same, regardless of the level of dimming on each. This led me to believe it is a power supply issue. The explanation of the original poster aligns with my theory.

We moved in only a month ago, and as yet I have not commenced making contact with anyone for a solution, but this is at the top of my list for this new year.

Posted Friday 2 Jan 2015 @ 9:29:31 pm from IP #
r2160
Member

One of the things I have used in the past to "clean up" AC power is to try to stabilise the power being supplied to the light.

You could try a ferrite (toroid) ring that you wrap the cable around. Quite a cheap option. I have had success with this simple fix on AC power. It "smooths" the current to a device. You coil the ac cable around the coil.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=LO1246

If you dont mind spending a couple of dollars, you could also purchase an inline AC filter. These are not really cheap but may solve the problem. Perhaps try a filtered powerboard. These are sold by Officworks, DSE, Jaycar etc.

Please let us know how you go.

cheers
Glenn

Posted Wednesday 7 Jan 2015 @ 12:07:53 pm from IP #
Lance
Key Master

A standard filter isn't going to do a lot most likely, most mains filters tend to filter at 100kHz and upwards whereas control tones are much lower frequencies. But, there may well be filters designed to remove control tones, worth looking around, just can't see a standard garden variety filter doing much for this issue.

Posted Wednesday 7 Jan 2015 @ 12:29:02 pm from IP #
fgmuller@post.harvard.edu
Member

This is an update on my December post about the flickering Domus LED downlights in my home. At the suggestion of Domus and others, I took this matter up with Ausgrid who did undertake investigations, including installing a data logger and testing whether shifting my supply to a different phase would overcome the problem. In the end, Ausgrid advised that there was nothing they could do to resolve the problem. The lights still flicker every night from 10pm -- and it is extremely distracting and not something a consumer should have to put up with. Also, recently I was advised by the lighting store where I purchased the lights that it turns out my problem is not an isolated one, but very common in the eastern suburbs of Sydney. I have gone back to Domus to ask how and when they propose to resolve this problem.

Posted Monday 18 May 2015 @ 6:24:40 am from IP #
pjvanoort
Member

I'm changing over all my dimmers this weekend and can report back then if this solves the problem. Apparently the dimmers have gone through a number of design revisions in the last 9 months to solve these problems.

Fingers crossed!

Posted Monday 18 May 2015 @ 8:44:27 am from IP #
Morbo
Member

switching the phase would not be an option as the majority of Australian houses are single phase?
how is this
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/band-pass-filters/7013589/
http://au.rs-online.com/web/c/passive-components/passive-filters/power-line-filters/?searchTerm=filter
and there is some filters for the audiophile community to get rid of switch mode power supply noise.
A few khz is ok, since square waves are essentially high frequency noise, you would want to get rid of fast peaks
Or you read up on low pass filters and cook one up.

Posted Tuesday 19 May 2015 @ 5:23:44 am from IP #
Willo47
Member

Hi, I have gone through a similar exercise and get flickering on Dimmed LEDs when Ausgrid sends its signals down the line. Have put a scope on the AC to confirm it is the signaling. Initially I had leading edge dimmers (feeding Robus Impact 8 W 240 V dimmable down lights). I replaced the dimmers with trailing edge dimmers and the problem was even worse (only when dimmed). Wiring the dimmers to neutral instead of floating above the load reduced the flicker but did not remove it.

My solution was to purchase from JayCar a 10A 12 V power pack and a 150 W 12/240 V inverter. I supply the LEDs with the inverter power supply and turn on the supply when I turn on the lights. This is achieved by using a DPST light switch with the one pole for the light and the other to turn on the inverter (connect a wire in parallel to the inverter switch). I turn on the power pack separately (using a separate switch). The power pack only uses .3W on standby so not worried if this stays on. I have tried all sorts of filters and chokes to no avail as the signaling frequency is too low to be easily filtered out. Regards

Posted Sunday 25 Oct 2015 @ 5:01:14 am from IP #
fgmuller@post.harvard.edu
Member

Thanks Willo. This is a somewhat elaborate solution that would require me not only to purchase the parts but also pay an electrician to install. I'm now treating this as a consumer issue. It's just not reasonable for a consumer to have to go to these lengths at their own expense. The Australian Consumer Law requires that products be "fit for purpose" and these LED downlight kits are not fit for use in significant parts of the grids of NSW and Qld where ripple pulses have been used for decades. Since I initiated this post, it has become apparent that the problem is widespread in Sydney and involves more than just Domus products. I plan to take it up with consumer agencies.

Posted Thursday 29 Oct 2015 @ 11:30:48 pm from IP #

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