True, if you want to cram people together you can use your intelligence to make the close proximity bearable. Haven't seen much of that here...
question about thermal mass
(73 posts) (20 voices)-
Bushwalker
MemberPosted Friday 6 Mar 2015 @ 4:19:25 am from IP # -
dlvb19
MemberMorbo,
Have read that average Australian house lifespan is < 60 years. Many SHOULD be rebuild long before that. Withing a few years both cars and houses have their embodied energy surpassed by operational energy. Modification (eg. insulation, re-skinning) is always an option of course but many houses are demolished to make way for higher density living - not because the building is at the end of it's useful service life. My house is built on wooden stumps with an in ground life of 50 years - i fully expect the roof and glass to be recycled and the rest to be wood-chipped/composted after 50 years.
Posted Friday 6 Mar 2015 @ 6:11:02 am from IP # -
If you design a passive house - using the International Standard and building physics, you find out interesting stuff on thermal mass.
In cold climates you do not, that's NOT need thermal mass for natural heating. Instead, you insulate and seal well, plus the other 3 passive house keys.
In hot climates you can use thermal mass for cooling effect. Or possibly just a thin layer of tiles, as the cooling effect is more about surface temperature and conductivity.
So that's one reason I love this standard, because you can do whatever floor or internal wall material you like, and you don't have to worry about thermal mass, where, how much, how thick,...
Otherwise, if you want to use thermal mass to warm up a house, how do you know exactly how much to use and where to put it? rules of thumb aren't very accurate.
Posted Tuesday 10 Mar 2015 @ 6:17:51 am from IP # -
d.darroch
MemberOr, instead of building such a tight house, which must be insulated to such high standard, at SIGNIFICANT additional cost, you could just add some internal thermal mass to minimise internal temperature swings. Not that I'm advocating building poorly insulated houses, but passivehaus standards may be overkill for many people.
Why the hate for thermal mass on multiple threads? In most climates it's appropriate use will improve the thermal performance of a house.
Posted Tuesday 10 Mar 2015 @ 9:07:36 am from IP # -
Morbo
Membertoo much seal creates mold problems.
There is insulation with some mass and again, you can model thermal mass with ecotect. No, still not making money from that. Hope eventually its further development will be pushed. At some stage you will need lots of insulation to make up for the lack of thermal mass. And with the mild climate in Australia (human comfort temps +-20 deg instead -50+20 like in other places you won't need so much of it initially.Posted Wednesday 11 Mar 2015 @ 4:11:51 am from IP # -
Bushwalker
MemberMorbo said:
too much seal creates mold problems.Only if there is inadequate insulation and ventilation. Both go hand in hand with passiv house.
Cooler wall + warm moist air = condensation = mould. This happens in unsealed houses as well, probably way more often than in properly sealed and insulated, ventilated houses.
Posted Wednesday 11 Mar 2015 @ 4:22:35 am from IP # -
Thanks D Darroch. I want a building that is comfortable all year round in every square inch of the building. And I want its performance in terms of comfort and energy use modelled. Only the PH standard gives that. (with the whole integrated design process) I will buy a smaller house to get it if the cost is higher. Having lived in a certified passive house now there is no way back! bloggers around the world agree. it is absolutely addictive...
next time you visit Wonthaggi on a cold weekend come and see!
Morbo like bushwalker says, there is no condensation or mould in a passive house cos you avoid thermal bridges and add an air ventilation system.
Posted Wednesday 11 Mar 2015 @ 8:05:45 am from IP # -
Morbo
Memberyou cannot have all. No neighbours aircons, no birds, no cars. Or the whole lot. Unless you manage to tune it for certain frequencies. But since thermal mass already appears to be a struggle, sound is impossible.
You might be surprised how much ground coupling helps (on temperature fluctuations). Even on a weatherboard 1/2m off the ground, the sub floor temperature is way more stable than the ambient temp.Posted Wednesday 11 Mar 2015 @ 11:13:53 pm from IP # -
Bushwalker
MemberIf you love the sound of birds but hate the sound of traffic and noisy neighbours etc. then every ph comes with a switch. It's called an openable window.
Posted Wednesday 11 Mar 2015 @ 11:25:06 pm from IP # -
People notice how quiet it is inside my double-glazed house. When I have a clear-story window open for ventilation, all the bird song and traffic and lawn-mower noise seems to come from that window.
Posted Wednesday 11 Mar 2015 @ 11:37:59 pm from IP # -
Morbo
MemberBushwalker said:
If you love the sound of birds but hate the sound of traffic and noisy neighbours etc. then every ph comes with a switch. It's called an openable window.so you have to tell the birds only to sing when neighbours aircon is off? Or move to the country as a lifestyle choice?
Posted Thursday 12 Mar 2015 @ 2:50:07 am from IP # -
Bushwalker
MemberWell, the question was can you hear birdsong inside a ph, not can you hear the neighbour's aircon or lawnmower.
Tony Abbott would not support you making lifestyle choices.
Bottom line, if the only time there is birdsong outside, your neighbour's aircon is also running, you need a ph and a birdsong recording to play on your hifi.
Posted Thursday 12 Mar 2015 @ 3:00:24 am from IP # -
Morbo
MemberNice one Tony 2 face. You meant to apply for 10 jobs a week in the country without actually living there. Its like hearing birdsongs but not aircons and V8s. Maybe build the house to accomodate certain frequencies. Or put something that makes reverse sounds only at certain frequencies.
Posted Thursday 12 Mar 2015 @ 4:04:17 am from IP # -
Bushwalker
MemberMaybe build an Aviary inside the house, that way you get the birdsong without the lawn mower.
The problem with building a house to frequency is that the easiest sounds to block out are the higher frequencies.
Posted Thursday 12 Mar 2015 @ 6:47:00 am from IP # -
scipe
Memberaviary inside ? But then you would have a prison within a prison ! No tks-
yez can keep that all to yerself ! put it on top of yer 150 cu M of planet
destroying cement (concrete).
**
On a more practical note - if the mad monk cant afford "ELECTRICITY & WATER" for
small remote communities what could the ReNew crew do to help supply them ?
that's something I would gladly donate to.
At 46*C + thermal mass would prob not be their first priority (?)**
(or as I heard a bloke put it " that ^*%$# 'sposed to be their friend (*&%%$#...)
some of them little mobs were the only ones that knew the country and kept watch while the japs were bombing *&^%*$ out of north Australia.... his f$%%%#@@ mates woulda
been hiding under their boardroom tables in Sydney & Melbourne....)Posted Thursday 12 Mar 2015 @ 9:09:55 am from IP # -
Bushwalker
MemberThe solution to your 'prison within a prison' is simple.
You don't need either, just sleep outside then you will have zero prisons and can hear as much birdsong and lawn mowers/air conditioners etc as you like.
Posted Thursday 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:12:55 pm from IP # -
dreuky
MemberI know it goes against all the heating and cooling logic but as far as I am concerned I want to open windows WIDE at least once a day. No logic behind it I just like having a breeze go through my house, and the little opening bit that double glazed windows allow just doesn't cut it for me. As I said no logic just a personal foible, one that isn't energy efficient
Posted Thursday 12 Mar 2015 @ 9:48:46 pm from IP # -
Bushwalker
Memberdreuky said:
the little opening bit that double glazed windows allow just doesn't cut it for me.Not sure what sort of dg windows you have experienced, but tilt and turn windows allow the largest opening you could ever want:
http://s10.postimg.org/yqgtvmeqh/New_tilt_and_turn_windows_in_the_loft_15_Large.jpgPosted Thursday 12 Mar 2015 @ 10:00:13 pm from IP # -
Johnnojack
MemberSince the topic is thermal mass here's a question. What would be better: 1.A central rammed earth wall with standard flat ceiling allowing any amount of insulation above the ceiling, or cathedral ceiling with tall central REW and with insulation say R5 above? Assuming plenty of solar access and slab floor. Needing best performance in winter as having a no gas and no wood fire house. Summer should be OK as shading dealt with and solar panels available to run an a/c if desperate.
Posted Friday 13 Mar 2015 @ 12:29:29 am from IP # -
Johnnojack
MemberHmmm, I think my other half would veto that. She wants a house which is easier to drive. Maybe ceiling fan with reverse. The Aeratron is great, probably get one or two for the new house. So quiet on lower speeds you just can't hear it. Just seeking an opinion as to whether the extra metre height of REW is worth the expense. The cathedral ceiling while I like it and she loves it, it makes it difficult to get hotwater pipes to the bathroom. Going thru a REW or slab is not an option I feel. Only other way is up and over cathedral ceiling and back along an interior wall, about 24m of pipe
Ducting from the conservatory will need some smart thinking too.
Posted Saturday 14 Mar 2015 @ 3:27:08 am from IP # -
MoreBikesPlease
MemberI'd go with a standard ceiling, not cathedral. A proper roof space is so much easier to improve or install stuff later on.
I doubt whether you'd need that extra height of the thermal mass wall. If you need more thermal mass, perhaps you could embed tubes full of water or something? Plus you could always add phase change materials later, between your normal standard ceilings and the insulation.
Posted Monday 16 Mar 2015 @ 5:30:35 am from IP # -
Johnnojack
MemberI think we will be going for a scissor truss type roof. That way we still get a pitched ceiling, a taller REW, a bit of interest or wow factor with the ceiling and yet plenty of space above the ceiling to be able to put lots of insulation and ducts and services. One end of the house (not the living area) will have a standard flat ceiling with storage room upstairs via pull down roof ladder. Plus room for HRV, ducted vacuum, maybe HW storage tank.
Posted Monday 16 Mar 2015 @ 11:29:07 am from IP # -
Johnnojack
MemberAfter owning and living in 3 houses with flat ceilings gyprock walls and slab on ground I reckon it is time for something a bit special. Probably will be the last house we build (we are making it disability useable) and by denying ourselves any extras it just means our kids get to spend more inheritance eventually.
Posted Tuesday 17 Mar 2015 @ 11:39:00 pm from IP # -
axess
MemberHi Johnnojack,
Add as much drama to the house as possible! Rev up the design features and pump up the sustainability as well. Anyone can have a boring but sustainable house. Bugger the inheritance but retain the accessibilty! It's your house not the housing markets' house.
Just go for it.And good luck!
Posted Thursday 19 Mar 2015 @ 9:08:11 am from IP #
