Anyone know anything about this system? I've been told it uses less energy than other blower type sewage systems. Would prefer to go with the old type no power septic and am going to try for that but if council digs in its heels I would like to know which blower type system is the best to use
Fuji clean sewage system
(23 posts) (5 voices)-
David
MemberUse a civil engineer, they know the regs and their report trumps anything or anyone that is less qualified. We did, the council started off saying septic was not OK until I mentioned I had an engineers report. Suddenly it was all OK and there was no problem with septic system. It also ensures that whatever system will meet regulations. Otherwise consider the "onzite" worm system low power demands, I think a pretty good second choice.
Posted Sunday 30 Nov 2014 @ 6:41:12 am from IP # -
Bushwalker
MemberHi dreuky,
In the same boat but a few months away still. I did a comparison including power consumption in the Tassie WW thread:
http://www.ata.org.au/forums/topic/12217
The fujiclean is better than most in terms of power consumption, the only one that uses less power is the Ozzikleen but it apparently doesn't run an anaerobic chamber.
Posted Sunday 30 Nov 2014 @ 7:22:03 am from IP # -
David
MemberIf your off-grid for power all of the above are pretty major power contributors. On grid it adds up to quite a bit of money each year in power costs. When it comes to the servicing I believe most of the above require a contract for servicing them still more costs. If you can get a Spetic the costs of maintaining it are a fraction of any of the others, the Onzite system is also very cheap and very low power consumer to run electrically, cheap to maintain as you don't require a contract with any company, you can do it yourself.
I'd still get a civil engineer to do the assessment, I reckon it's worth it, to reduce the hassle to a minimum and makes a permit easy to get.
Posted Sunday 30 Nov 2014 @ 10:08:50 am from IP # -
dreuky
MemberThanks. I am chasing down an engineer who I have been told specialises in doing sewage systems and getting councils to agree. I am doing my own research too so that I won't be a total dumbie when I talk to him. I really don't want a system that chews power and has to have a service contract especially as we have had the old fashion septic here for near 40 years with no troubles so I know they work
Posted Sunday 30 Nov 2014 @ 9:28:41 pm from IP # -
Chippa2014
MemberHi Dreuky
Not sure what council you are governed by but ours has put a freeze on septic\water treatment system installations due to concerns over the quality of the systems and the output of the treated water. We are very lucky and still have the evaporation pits and the grey and black water pits.
In our case 2 years ago, we were told by council that because of "suspected" tree root damage to put a Taylex or similar unit in. We also had to put a DA in (to raise profits for council I'm sure) So we diligently did our homework and asked around the estate as to what other people have. Not knowing anything about these systems I was naturally worried that I was going to make anyone in our home sick.......
In our estate we have many Taylex systems, some 12 months old and some years old, and all of them are having issues. Not too mention the quarterly on going costs of $250 to have a Taylex engineer look at the tank.
We also have 6 FujiKlean installations in the estate, all of which the owners regret their choice of system and are looking to replace their treatment systems asap.
We considered the EC-1500 model I think....
Problems relate to electrical connections and tripping the main circuit breakers in the house, the pump\blower not working, needing to run the pump longer than originally thought, poor breakdown of raw materials and constant pressure issues within the tank itself...... I don't know all the details but the most common fault appears to be with an anode .. or something it either connects to or does???
We are fortunate to not have to replace our system because there was no tree root damage and ironically, our council has recently put a freeze on all water treatment plants because they are not as good as the old fashioned ones :-).
Our neighbours are right now in the process of working with council to get approval to remove their Taylex and installing the older style evap system.
We have been advised by council to NOT install a Taylex or FujiKlean system until further notice.
Good luck with your install.
Posted Monday 1 Dec 2014 @ 3:52:48 am from IP # -
Bushwalker
MemberChippa2014 said:
Problems relate to electrical connections and tripping the main circuit breakers in the house, the pump\blower not working, needing to run the pump longer than originally thought, poor breakdown of raw materials and constant pressure issues within the tank itself...... I don't know all the details but the most common fault appears to be with an anode .. or something it either connects to or does???Any chance of separating the Taylex and Fuji problems out?
There are multiple problems with on site domestic treatment plants. Septic systems have a history of mismanagement or zero maintenance resulting in very low quality effluent reaching streams and stormwater drains. That's the basic reason councils have steered away from them. Smaller blocks are more common, smaller block means less dispersal area and higher chance of disaster. The oral history of septic systems is that you can set it and forget it, and that is what leads to problems. Septics should be under a service contract just like AWTS IMO.
AWTS have the electrical and maintenance cost problem, they can kill pumps, their controllers can die and their air blowers can be unreliable.
All systems are subject to problems with owners putting rubbish down the pipes and expecting the plant to cope. That includes cleaning agents, oil, excess paper or napkin material, condoms, etc, etc, the result of which is a clogged system and/or a sterile plant incapable of digesting bad bacteria with the good bacteria that lives in the system.
I can understand that people who have installed an expensive plant and watch it break down want to remove it, but if the reason the plant is compromised is their behaviour, then replacing the plant won't really help, will it?
Posted Monday 1 Dec 2014 @ 5:33:01 am from IP # -
dreuky
MemberI'm now looking at "Advanced Enviro Septic" which is a soakage pipe system that sound really good because it works with the old fashioned septic tank and improves the water quality and soakage. well that is what they say. Does anyone know anything about this system?
So many people have problems with septic systems. Most of our neighbours have air blower types and have nothing but problems. The electrics seem to die with amazing regularity and the amount of chlorine put into them every 4 months seems to me to be HUGE. The water that comes out is basically swimming pool water. Don't know if this is necessary or whether the contractors are just lazy. We, because we have been here the longest have the old septic tank and never have any problems. It probably helps that the system is a 10 person tank and there are only 2 of us. When we put it in a 10 person tank was the smallest available.Posted Monday 1 Dec 2014 @ 11:26:10 am from IP # -
Chippa2014
MemberHi Bushwalker,
From what our neighbours have told us its the same issues for each of the Taylex and Fuji systems.
Electrical failures being the most common.
The plants that have been installed and are failing are not because the occupants behaviour within the home has changed and they are actively killing the microbes. The owners have not changed and have been in the properties for > 20 years. They're not stupid people and have not changed the behaviours.
Its because the systems are crap, pardon the pun. They simply do not work as well as the old method.
Cheers
Posted Monday 1 Dec 2014 @ 9:07:26 pm from IP # -
dreuky
MemberHi Chippa 2014
When you say "do not work as well as the old method" are you referring to the septic tank that was 2 chambers sometimes 3, no air blower, no pumps, just worked away with its microbes, the owner did no maintaince except pumping it out every couple of years? This is the type we have and it has been working for nearly 40 years with no probs and in all honesty is what I would have at my new house if council would let me but council regs have moved on and so I am doing all this research trying to find a system that will work and does cost me an arm and a leg to run.Posted Monday 1 Dec 2014 @ 10:25:05 pm from IP # -
Chippa2014
MemberHi Dreuky.
Yep exactly that.
Our council has put a freeze on all sewerage treatment plant installs because they simply do not work as well as the old "septic tank that was 2 chambers sometimes 3, no air blower, no pumps, just worked away with its microbes, the owner did no maintenance except pumping it out every couple of years".
The council has also tested the quality of the grey water from these new treatment plants and found the chemicals tested from the output sprinklers contain way to much chlorine and there is no way the microbes in these new septic tanks can survive... hence (in my opinion) why there are so many issues.
2 cups of raw sugar every 3 months and pump out ever 5 years. Happy days!
Posted Monday 1 Dec 2014 @ 11:25:27 pm from IP # -
Bushwalker
MemberChippa2014 said:
Hi Bushwalker,From what our neighbours have told us its the same issues for each of the Taylex and Fuji systems.
Electrical failures being the most common.
The plants that have been installed and are failing are not because the occupants behaviour within the home has changed and they are actively killing the microbes. The owners have not changed and have been in the properties for > 20 years. They're not stupid people and have not changed the behaviours.
Its because the systems are crap, pardon the pun. They simply do not work as well as the old method.
Cheers
Ok, we have had various septic and AWTS systems over the last 30 years. I think we have a bit of a handle on what goes on, but not specifically with a Taylex or Fujiclean system.
You say:
In our estate we have many Taylex systems, some 12 months old and some years old, and all of them are having issues. Not too mention the quarterly on going costs of $250 to have a Taylex engineer look at the tank.
We also have 6 FujiKlean installations in the estate, all of which the owners regret their choice of system and are looking to replace their treatment systems asap.
So 100% of all those systems are failing and all of the owners want to remove them. Mainly because of electrical failures.
I think there is a bit of exaggeration going on here. I could believe something around 20-30% of people with a 3 year old system that was hitting electrical problems might be financially able and even keen to move on to a new system, but 100% including virtually new systems a year or so old? I don't think so. For starters, a casual perusal of the Fujiclean Australian owners manual reveals that there is a 15 year warranty on the tank and 2 years on everything else.
http://www.fujiclean.com.au/App_Themes/Site/pdf/CE1500EX_Owners_Manual.pdfTaylex is not as generous, they offer 15 years on the tank and 1 year on the rest with an extra 1 year extended warranty available:
http://www.taylex.com.au/Images/Taylex%20ABS%20Warranties.pdfRegarding your comment:
They simply do not work as well as the old method.
This is simply not true. There is a reason the 'old method' has gone out of favour and that is because when they fail, there is no-one checking them, resulting in ongoing pollution of the local environment, waterways and ground water.
The newer AWTS is regularly checked and serviced, they are packaged plants that are tested to comply with state effluent requirements resulting in relatively clean water arriving at the dispersal site, eliminating the potential for pollution of the local environment. If the AWTS fails, it raises an alarm in the house so that it can be repaired.
The 'Old method' septic tanks have no warning system, so when they fail, they fail until someone notices the ongoing pollution. In some cases, those systems pollute for years before something is done about it. There was a study of septic systems in the Hunter Valley that showed appalling pollution because of failing and non-maintained systems.
Posted Monday 1 Dec 2014 @ 11:40:15 pm from IP # -
Chippa2014
MemberHi Bushwalker
Yep. 100% of the home owner who have lived in the estate for > 20+ years, who switched from the old absorption systems to the new improved and managed systems want them removed and to return to the old style septic systems.
With respect to:
This is simply not true. There is a reason the 'old method' has gone out of favour and that is because when they fail, there is no-one checking them, resulting in ongoing pollution of the local environment, waterways and ground water.
Our council inspects our system every 12 months. So in fact it is true and it was these very inspections that identified the newer Taylex and FujiKlean systems were failing... not the absorption ones which is why our local council has placed a freeze on the installation of these newer types of systems.
Perusing warranties and getting the company, in this case Taylex and FujiKlean, to acknowledge the system is at fault and to honour the warranty is 2 different things.
When council sends a report to the manufacturers of these new systems which clearly states the amount of nitrogen, chlorine and phosphorous removal from the outlet of the tanks does not meet any of the Aust\NZ standards you have to ask yourself the question, what on site system actually works.....
Our neighbours have a taylex or Fuji rep\tech on site weekly in some cases because of failures, which they have to pay for.
No argument the older systems can fail, and mostly due to poor maintenance and routine services, but when the odour of the new systems is noticeable down wind and the older ones do not have any odour at all, kinda speaks for itself.
Our council also completed studies re the quality of the different systems in use in our estate again last year. (test have been done since 2001 that I am aware of) The brand new Taylex system installed 12 months ago directly across the road from me failed all tests. Our system only failed the phosphorous test.
We also failed the high water test as (we are on the side of the feature) and in the floods that smashed qld 2 years ago that was deemed beyond any ones control due to run off from up the hill and therefore technically listed as a "watch for reoccurrence and highly unlikely to repeat" in the report.
Interestingly enough, homes that had the Fuji systems all stopped working during the floods, every single one, all 6, that's 100% failure and would not work until the blowers were all replaced at cost to the owners and not warranted by Fuji.
No exaggeration mate, these new over priced continual need to service systems are crap.
Posted Tuesday 2 Dec 2014 @ 12:13:43 am from IP # -
Bushwalker
MemberThanks for the further information Chippa.
Are these council installed and managed systems? I only ask because of your comment 'want them replaced', not 'will replace' ?
Warranty is warranty. Unless the system has been misused there is no reason why a company would not honour the warranty. If they try, then get together and head down to the small claims court. Is it Fuji denying warranty or the local installer?
The primary human health measures for effluent approval at the outlet are BOD5, Coliform and suspended solids. Nitrogen and Phosphorous reduction is a local soil protection measure as I understand it. Chlorine is a requirement to achieve healthier outlet water and it is _added_ not reduced by the plant unless it uses a UV steriliser on the outlet. Once chlorine hits the ground its gone in minutes anyway.
So the plants are failing Phosphorous and Nitrogen reduction standards. You do know how Phosphorous gets into a wastewater treatment plant, don't you? Yet the approval sets a mg/ml of each of these on the outlet. Unless the householder minimises the use of products, that is just wishful thinking, and no system will achieve the approval standard...
Regarding the failure of the blowers in the Fujiclean systems during the flood, well that is just bad luck. Fuji should have designed the blowers to run under water. lol. We cannot rightly blame Fuji for the failure of a blower during a flood event.
Which council are we talking about, and do they publish the results of their tests, I'd like to see them.
Posted Tuesday 2 Dec 2014 @ 2:16:21 am from IP # -
Chippa2014
MemberHi Bushwalker..
These are not council installed or managed systems, but they are annually checked by council. Council wanted us to replace ours based on a suspicion they had, or revenue raising for the comm games.... and no proof, it wasn't until we had paid for 4 certified plumbers to inspect the system that they finally relented the need to install a dodgy taylex or Fuji type system.
Warranty is warranty and that's the problem, systems installed by Fuji (and taylex) certified installers yet when there is an issue it turns out its not covered.
The blower is supposed, and required, to be sealed to prevent contamination, when it was proven that they weren't that was when Fuji stoped responding. It wasn't bad luck, it was a floor in their design.
Very poor after sales service and warranty support seems to be the norm now-a-days.
Our council is the gold coast city council. We have asked for the reports for the inspections done at our place also (as part of the inspection process they offer) however we are yet to receive anything. Council wont release the reports, and I checked their website also and they don't publish anything recent (as in in the last 5 years).
We know of homes that were told to rip out the old system and put the new ones in because of "faults", which weren't actually faults. As of 1 Aug 2014, council had put a freeze on new installs and the need to replace the old systems that weren't working correctly.
We were very concerned when we were told to put a taylex \ Fuji type system in and it had to be done within 28 days... Due to the design of the house and yard itself, we were quoted >$40K to retire the old and install a new system, plus council fees.... We fought it very hard and eventually had a small win.... sadly not many others have been as lucky as us.
Posted Tuesday 2 Dec 2014 @ 3:44:40 am from IP # -
Chippa2014
Member* I believe the newer fujiklean models have rectified the blower issues (and some of the electrical problems) our neighbours experienced when it rains
Posted Tuesday 2 Dec 2014 @ 3:46:34 am from IP # -
dreuky
MemberGood end result. Managed to track down the guy I wanted to. he can design me a system that does not use an air blower tank. It will use a small pump to pump out the tank as required instead of gravity flow. (he says that works better) but the pump will only use about 30 watts/day for 4 people and we are only 2. So I am happy with that. And a big plus, it turns out my local council has employed this guy to design and build several of their public toilets and other community centre waste water systems. So I won't have any trouble with the council. He has also worked with the builder I am using. So all it all worth the time spent hunting him down.
Posted Wednesday 3 Dec 2014 @ 9:00:43 pm from IP # -
David
Memberdreuky said:
Good end result. Managed to track down the guy I wanted to. he can design me a system that does not use an air blower tank. It will use a small pump to pump outAm I right in saying it's a septic system with a pump well?
It's what we needed due to how flat our ground is. The really cool bit is the pump only typically needs to run during the day, when solar is producing power therefore having almost no impact on an off-grid system and batteries.
Don't be fooled the pump will fail in the end. So it's worthwhile checking it regularly, easy to replace though. The pump may only average 30-60W's as daily average but when it does run it will almost certainly pull more than that.
#just saying.
Posted Wednesday 3 Dec 2014 @ 9:24:37 pm from IP # -
dreuky
Memberto David yes I know pumps have a life span and will eventually need to be replaced. The plumber doing our system will do yearly maintenance or will show us what has to be done. Says it is really easy to do the maintenance. It just has to be done.
As an aside back where we were the neighbours all had envirocycles and the 6 monthly maintenance was - guy came along opened little lid threw in a handful of chlorine tablets got back in his car and drove on to the next one. Never checked anything but charged like a wounded bull. Maybe this was just this particular guy but the so called "maintenance" was a total shonk. All of the tanks had problems that their owners had to deal with.Posted Wednesday 25 Mar 2015 @ 10:23:53 pm from IP # -
Bushwalker
MemberYep. Been there, done that. We had an Envirocycle clone that had the same type of service. Not being aware of the operation of the unit we assumed the three monthly servicing was done to regulation. When the system failed I had to go take a look and it was clear that 'maintenance' consisted of driving by and (perhaps) throwing in some chlorine tablets.
These days I carry out some of the maintenance myself to keep our plant in good working order. It's a sad fact that if you operate your own wastewater plant you have to be aware of the operation and monitor the current state of the unit regularly or you are leaving yourself open for disasters of the smelly and dollar kinds.
Posted Wednesday 25 Mar 2015 @ 11:20:23 pm from IP # -
Bushwalker
MemberTank Man said:
Owners of these systems are very unhappy when they are have problems and find out the cure is to desludge regularly. A friend of mine had a system for 18 months when it was tested it had 700 mm of sludge and cost $800 to clean out and bring it back to normal operation.I guess it depends on your area. I don't know about the Fujiclean desludge routine, but we do a regular clear of our system every couple of years and the cost is less than $300 for 3000L which is about the same total volume of the Fujiclean (the Fuji's primary sedimentation chamber where the sludge would occur is about 1100L)
Posted Wednesday 25 Mar 2015 @ 11:31:01 pm from IP # -
tahra18
MemberThanks for all of your above, helpful posts. Just at the start of looking in to building an extension on our 26yr old house (on 5 acres) with old septic system. With the addition, the septic system will be beyond capacity and will need to be replaced. Awaiting percolation and soil testing but have been told by a few plumbers that the way to go is a Fuji Kleen Treatment system. Ideally we would like a septic system similar to what we have and am concerned that council will likely decline that request. I am curious to know how you all have gotten on 1-3yrs later?
Posted Thursday 19 Jan 2017 @ 12:57:56 pm from IP # -
David
Membertahra18 said:
Just at the start of looking in to building an extension on our 26yr old house (on 5 acres) with old septic system. With the addition, the septic system will be beyond capacity and will need to be replaced.How many bedrooms currently, what size is the existing tank and how metres of leach field piping do you currently have, how many additional bedrooms, what will the new total number of bedrooms be (Just in case an existing bedroom is getting converted to something else)?
Posted Thursday 19 Jan 2017 @ 2:41:20 pm from IP #