We have just had solar panels installed by True Value Solar and they have been installed in such a way that they protrude past the apex of the roof. They look bloody horrible and when we raised this issue with the installers they said this was common practice.
We contacted the Queensland office of True Value Solar only to be palmed of to the installation company.
What action can we take to rectify this problem, any help would be much appreciated!
True Value Solar Installation Complaint
(72 posts) (21 voices)-
rastagraphics
MemberPosted Friday 22 Jul 2011 @ 7:36:12 am from IP # -
Russell Moore
MemberActually not a bad idea, as it will increase the air flow under the panels, and the cooler the panels the more output you will get. It helps to catch wind blowing up the south side of the house, as well as forming a low pressure area to the south of the panels drawing more air under the panels when the wind blows the other way.
Whether they look OK is always in the eye of the beholder. Give me performance over eye appeal any day.
Posted Friday 22 Jul 2011 @ 11:06:09 am from IP # -
dymonite69
MemberWill they blow off?
Posted Friday 22 Jul 2011 @ 11:59:29 am from IP # -
connecting
Memberif they are more than 500mm over the ridge the chances are very high they will blow off,
did they screw the base plates to the roofing iron or to the trusses or rafters??
if to the roofing iron I give you a 90% chance they will blow off if to a rafter 10%
but any way there is no way I would allow some one to do that to mine.
there are recommendations on where and how they are to be fittedPosted Thursday 28 Jul 2011 @ 11:30:46 pm from IP # -
Sunshine
MemberMine protrude around 300mm over the ridge cap. Have been there almost 3 years. The panels are fastened to the aluminium rails, which are screwed into the rafters.
As Russell says, it will help in cooling. With my place it is not overly noticable, unless you really look specifically for it at a certain angle.
The installers have to work with the positioning of the rafters, so there may not be any option other than install them the way they are. That is the situation with mine. With my roof, it was either really high on the roof, or really low. Really low, basically meant covering the gutters, so high it is.Posted Thursday 28 Jul 2011 @ 11:49:42 pm from IP # -
Russell Moore
MemberOn the whirlpool forums I saw a photo of a installation by hippiesparx that extended over the ridge, and I hear that he (hippie) has a good reputation for quality installs. That install is for dazz1975, he used to post on pvoutput.org up until a few months ago. I think the photo was on the whirlpool site.
I wouldn't be worried about them lifting off the roof, so long as they have been well screwed/bolted down.
Posted Friday 29 Jul 2011 @ 3:01:02 am from IP # -
alfresco24
MemberThere's aesthetic and technical issues here. Leaving aside personal taste, wind load effect is the big issue and fastening panels to roof cladding only, should only be done flush.
PV installation design should be based on dealing with one in 5 year storms, otherwise there will be tears.Posted Saturday 30 Jul 2011 @ 12:45:56 am from IP # -
Russell Moore
MemberWhere does the OP state that the panels are attached to the cladding?
Posted Sunday 31 Jul 2011 @ 12:31:52 am from IP # -
Alfresco24, isn't that "dealing with one in 500 year storms"?
Posted Saturday 6 Aug 2011 @ 12:28:16 pm from IP # -
alfresco24
MemberRussell - standardised procedures in OZ dont allow for that, however I have seen this done on some private sites using a 'different' mounting system with panels clamping into a frame (like a picture frame) mounted to the roof itself. Total height was 50mm.
Cato - yeah, a tongue in cheek but relevant reference to what is becoming a more frequent expectation. And let's face it, some of the winds we get these days are scarey strong.Does anyone have evidence about PV panel ejection during recent wind storms in parts of Oz that previously rarely had high power winds?
Posted Sunday 7 Aug 2011 @ 1:59:33 am from IP # -
connecting
MemberMaybe I have missed the point.
I consider it as in the too hard basket and installers are too lazy , but after a quick buck.
it all comes to understanding how a roof is made, firstly they are not made / designed for solar panels
Solar panels have weight and weight is how a roof is designed, the roof truss its self has wind strengths and god knows what else designed into it.
But a carpenter would batten into the roof truss what is commonly known in a Australia as a noggen/batten or NZ a dwang he he .
And the solar panel would be able to screw into the noggen at the right area, so not allowing the over hang.
I can not see an installer screwing into a steel batten and hoping it works, as I have seen many a screw work lose or pull out on a steel batten, bet then again do they check what they screw into?.
The most important thing is the truss roof; it is not designed to take solar panels,
I do not suppose any one would have thought of that.
While I am about it, I do not know how a company can sell power at 21 cents and buy power of some one using solar panels for 60 cents.
I small a rat here as that can not be good for a business, wait for 3 years and maybe our power bill will be 60cents a kilowatt, which is 3 times our power bill now.
If you do not believe me about roofing strengths ask your local experienced carpenter, I am sure he will agreePosted Monday 15 Aug 2011 @ 11:12:34 am from IP # -
Russell Moore
MemberIf I walk across a roof, am I not heavier than a solar panel? I see no difference to a 80kg person on a roof to a solar panel that is much lighter, and the panel is spread over a much larger area. Roofs are designed to carry these extra things, or else we could not walk on them.
Posted Monday 15 Aug 2011 @ 11:21:37 am from IP # -
connecting
MemberI agree with you Russel they are designed for downward weight, as they need to be for tradesmen to walk over when working.
but the question is??? are the solar panels good for updraft when the solar panels are under wind velocity, I am inclined to disagree here, but also open to argument tooPosted Monday 15 Aug 2011 @ 11:29:27 am from IP # -
garysolar
MemberI am a solar installer with over 2000 installation under my belt. 1st question is it a tiled or corrugated roof. If it is tiled it is highly likely that this system is not installed to manufacturers specifications, if it is corrugated it may be OK. All solar frames should have a engineers certificate and installation instructions to suit all areas in Australia.
If you are unsure if your system has been installed correctly you can contact ORER (Office of Renewable Energy) and request an inspection. ORER carry out spot inspections throughout Australia to ensure compliant installations. If it is a tiled roof the reason it would unlikely be compliant is because the roof bracket would have to be installed under the 2nd last roof tile and most roof tiles are 300mm so that would be ata least 600mm plus the width of ridge cap, all roof mounting systems I have used over the last 4 years state the maximum overhang is 500mm. If you located in the Gold Coast area I am happy to come and inspect and give written report free of charge. I am concerned about the reputation this industry is getting and I rely on it for my livelyhood.Posted Tuesday 28 Feb 2012 @ 9:53:56 am from IP # -
Andrew_Sustainable
Memberrastagraphics, I have been looking into TVS solar panels. Have your problems been fixed and are the panels any good? Would you recommend?
Thanks
APosted Wednesday 29 Feb 2012 @ 2:58:28 am from IP # -
solar Installer
Memberrastagraphics said:
We have just had solar panels installed by True Value Solar and they have been installed in such a way that they protrude past the apex of the roof. They look bloody horrible and when we raised this issue with the installers they said this was common practice.
We contacted the Queensland office of True Value Solar only to be palmed of to the installation company.
What action can we take to rectify this problem, any help would be much appreciated!garysolar said:
I am a solar installer with over 2000 installation under my belt. 1st question is it a tiled or corrugated roof. If it is tiled it is highly likely that this system is not installed to manufacturers specifications, if it is corrugated it may be OK. All solar frames should have a engineers certificate and installation instructions to suit all areas in Australia.
If you are unsure if your system has been installed correctly you can contact ORER (Office of Renewable Energy) and request an inspection. ORER carry out spot inspections throughout Australia to ensure compliant installations. If it is a tiled roof the reason it would unlikely be compliant is because the roof bracket would have to be installed under the 2nd last roof tile and most roof tiles are 300mm so that would be ata least 600mm plus the width of ridge cap, all roof mounting systems I have used over the last 4 years state the maximum overhang is 500mm. If you located in the Gold Coast area I am happy to come and inspect and give written report free of charge. I am concerned about the reputation this industry is getting and I rely on it for my livelyhood.garysolar said:
I am a solar installer with over 2000 installation under my belt. 1st question is it a tiled or corrugated roof. If it is tiled it is highly likely that this system is not installed to manufacturers specifications, if it is corrugated it may be OK. All solar frames should have a engineers certificate and installation instructions to suit all areas in Australia.
If you are unsure if your system has been installed correctly you can contact ORER (Office of Renewable Energy) and request an inspection. ORER carry out spot inspections throughout Australia to ensure compliant installations. If it is a tiled roof the reason it would unlikely be compliant is because the roof bracket would have to be installed under the 2nd last roof tile and most roof tiles are 300mm so that would be ata least 600mm plus the width of ridge cap, all roof mounting systems I have used over the last 4 years state the maximum overhang is 500mm. If you located in the Gold Coast area I am happy to come and inspect and give written report free of charge. I am concerned about the reputation this industry is getting and I rely on it for my livelyhood.I agree, we need to get rid of these doggy installers. Before you get your system installed check that the installer electrician is CEC qualified to install Solar.
I use to work for a company who had seven teams of installers and only Two had CEC certification. It i sa requirement that the electrician is cec Accredited.Posted Saturday 10 Mar 2012 @ 6:14:31 am from IP # -
dwc1984
Member@ rastagraphics
Any system that is installed that overhangs roofs is non compliant and has voided warranties.Where manuals state maximum overhang of 500-600 mm this is in reference to the distance from last fixing (foot) to the end of the rail supporting the solar panels, this has nothing to do with overhanging roofs.
Check the installation manuals, as a a lot of the Chinese suppliers of mounting systems do not have the required engineering, and can only mount in the centre of the roof.
There is whats known as a 0.2b and 0.2d installation limitation on these systems used by TVS. They state the system cant be installed within 0.2b or 0.2d of roofs ridge / edge / gutter where b and d are the plan dimensions of the building.
So what this means is that if B (the dimension parallel to your gutter / ridge) is 10m and d (the dimension perpendicular to your gutter / ridge) is 15m this leaves an exclusion zone of 2m in from roofs ridge and gutter and 3m in from roofs edge where your not allowed to mount panels otherwise you void any warranties and certifications offered with the products in the first place.If you have a system limited by this 0.2b and 0.2d restriction and your installer has installed panels in these exclusion zones, if something fails the manufacturer wont replace as they weren't installed properly to begin with.
Also make sure your racking is anodised, and not a mill finish product.
There are a few suppliers out there who supply mill finish racking and claim is OK for use the Australian environment, or even superior for the Australian environment.
Its complete lies and any metal manufacturer in Australia will tell you that.This is the same as saying, "Oh I have a wooden patio and deck in my back yard, but Im not going to varnish them because untreated wood is fine in the Australian environment" This is what Anodising is, its basically varnishing for alloy.
@ garysolar
It doesn't matter if the roof is Tile or Tin, if your panels or racking are overhanging the roof your voiding warranties and compliance.
Where manuals state maximum overhang of 500-600 mm this is in reference to the distance from last fixing to the end of the rail supporting the solar panels, this has nothing to do with overhanging roofs. And this shows it in the drawings in the manuals.
As A Solar Installer you should know that panels and racking must not exceed past roofs ridges / edges or gutters as this voids compliance and warranties with these products. This is listed in the installation manuals.
If you have installed jobs where the panels are overhanging the roof then all of these installations are non-compliant and have voided any warranty that the solar panel or solar racking manufacturer has providedPosted Friday 23 Nov 2012 @ 5:27:55 am from IP # -
jj_j
MemberFirst, I got to say that the installers were more than OK when they were installing my panels. My wife was offering them something to drink, eat all the time and their response was "Thank you but no, we came here to work and we will take a break AFTER we are done.". They did everything by the book and I'm pretty happy with what they have done so far.
Posted Wednesday 1 May 2013 @ 12:23:49 am from IP # -
Edge Exclusion Zones – As per AS/NZS 1170.2:2011, the flush mounted and tilt-mounted frame systems
need to be installed within the internal roof zone. The edge exclusion zones is calculated from the minimum
of 0.2x’D’ (width of the building), 0.2x’B’ (length of the building) and ‘H’ (average height of the building).
Figure 17. Edge exclusion zone
1Battens and purlins are the same components and are usually located horizontal, or perpendicular to the roof pitch. This differs from rafters edge zones apply to all areas
where cyclones occure north of bundy i think and fifty klms from the coast if this is you getb them back and quote the bca or kiss warranty goodby when they blow offPosted Wednesday 1 May 2013 @ 7:48:12 am from IP # -
amun-ra said:
Edge Exclusion Zones – As per AS/NZS 1170.2:2011, the flush mounted and tilt-mounted frame systems
need to be installed within the internal roof zone. The edge exclusion zones is calculated from the minimum
of 0.2x’D’ (width of the building), 0.2x’B’ (length of the building) and ‘H’ (average height of the building).
Figure 17. Edge exclusion zone
1Battens and purlins are the same components and are usually located horizontal, or perpendicular to the roof pitch. This differs from rafters edge zones apply to all areas
where cyclones occure north of bundy I think and fifty klms from the coast if this is you get them back and quote the bca or kiss warranty goodby when they blow offPosted Wednesday 1 May 2013 @ 7:49:20 am from IP # -
jj_j
Memberamun-ra said:
Edge Exclusion Zones – As per AS/NZS 1170.2:2011, the flush mounted and tilt-mounted frame systems
need to be installed within the internal roof zone. The edge exclusion zones is calculated from the minimum
of 0.2x’D’ (width of the building), 0.2x’B’ (length of the building) and ‘H’ (average height of the building).
Figure 17. Edge exclusion zone
1Battens and purlins are the same components and are usually located horizontal, or perpendicular to the roof pitch. This differs from rafters edge zones apply to all areas
where cyclones occure north of bundy i think and fifty klms from the coast if this is you getb them back and quote the bca or kiss warranty goodby when they blow offThat's why you need to hire a great renewable energy company and you'll have no problems at all. I didn't mention this in my previous post but I got a mate that is way more knowledgeable than me on this matter and he said that they have done a great job.
Posted Wednesday 1 May 2013 @ 10:25:46 pm from IP # -
jj_j
MemberAndrew_Sustainable said:
rastagraphics, I have been looking into TVS solar panels. Have your problems been fixed and are the panels any good? Would you recommend?Thanks
AI know this is a year later but if you have not chosen TVS yet you should definitely do so. Check out my posts here and if you have any questions PM me, I'll try to clarify the things that are making you hesitant about choosing TVS. If you have already chosen TVS than I would like to hear your response too.
Posted Thursday 2 May 2013 @ 8:52:08 pm from IP # -
mr.nobody
MemberI have to agree with jj_j, the people that came from True Value Solar were more than fair. There were no delays, the guys did their job really professionally and efficiently. The only question I have is how much money will I be able to save in the long run? I know that they tell you that but I want to hear an opinion from a user. I had my solar panels installed 6 months ago.
Posted Saturday 4 May 2013 @ 3:26:25 pm from IP # -
jj_j
Membermr.nobody said:
I have to agree with jj_j, the people that came from True Value Solar were more than fair. There were no delays, the guys did their job really professionally and efficiently. The only question I have is how much money will I be able to save in the long run? I know that they tell you that but I want to hear an opinion from a user. I had my solar panels installed 6 months ago.Their solar calculator is pretty accurate. Of course a lot of it depends on your location and daytime consumption. Also which of their systems are you using? I'm glad that you are another satisfied customer but mate, your avatar is killing me.
Posted Saturday 4 May 2013 @ 4:15:36 pm from IP # -
Lance
Key MasterBefore anyone chooses TVS they need to do some research, there are heaps of complaints against this company and it's derivatives, there's a forum thread at http://www.solarfreaks.com/true-value-solar-nightmare-t432.html that is pretty interesting reading.
Posted Saturday 4 May 2013 @ 11:57:08 pm from IP # -
jj_j
Membermr.nobody said:
@jj_j, I sent you a PM answering some of the questions but just for the record I have the 3kw system, so far so good. Sorry mate, they are my first love, who are you cheering for?Replied. I hope I clarified some of the questions you had. The 3kw system will enable you to save a lot of $$$, I use their 1.9kw system, can't imagine how much more I would save with a 3kw system but after some talking I decided that the 1.9kw system was more than enough for my needs.
Posted Monday 6 May 2013 @ 2:58:43 pm from IP # -
jj_j
MemberLance said:
Before anyone chooses TVS they need to do some research, there are heaps of complaints against this company and it's derivatives, there's a forum thread at http://www.solarfreaks.com/true-value-solar-nightmare-t432.html that is pretty interesting reading.Before choosing almost anything you need to do some research, you can't rely only on the company's word. I don't understand how some people are so disappointed with TVS and how others are happy customers. Does their service vary that much? Maybe some of us were lucky.
Posted Monday 6 May 2013 @ 3:02:26 pm from IP #
