Definitely gone I'd say :
Structural Insulated Panels
(343 posts) (108 voices)-
56chevy
MemberThanx gazmate, but saw this with my own eyes. I too believe Paneco is no longer but I saw SIP panels at the old factory that was in full swing. Factory sign said something like Lifestyle Laminations.
Came across this earlier today: http://www.fireacousticboard.com.au/ anyone out there heard of FAB Frame & know of any houses under construction.
Posted Tuesday 2 Sep 2014 @ 2:34:47 am from IP # -
gazmo88
MemberSorry,
Was not suggesting you had not seen stuff happening there. Might be interesting to find out if the new company has any directors in common with the old one or if the stuff was all bought by somebody else.
Fire Acoustic Board is a company founded by an ex-CEO of Paneco a few years back. It is an interesting system.
I looked into it but it just seems its not quite ready for what we want to do. Your view or requirements will probably differ to mine.
Good luck !
Posted Tuesday 2 Sep 2014 @ 8:25:41 am from IP # -
efficient design
MemberYes, Paneco is back up & running but under a different legal entity. I was alerted 6 weeks ago that this would happen:- most of the same people & the same construction system. I recently saw the new panels on a building site & the methodology was definitely Paneco.
I'm not sure what they are marketing the panels as, as there was no info onsite & the subbies didn't know.FAB Frame is the brainchild of an ex Managing Director of Paneco who retained a shareholding in Paneco & possibly the new entity as he needs someone to make his panels. FAB Frame operates out of a hanger at Redcliffe airport.
I would love to know if anyone has actually built a live structure with FAB Frame. The thing the concerns me is that this concept being marketed is only a dream in a computer. All load testing has been done hypothetically with Finite Element Analysis & looking at the website, every picture, apart from the borrowed YouTube, is computer generated. This begs the question, will they be using clients as guinea pigs?
On the otherhand, Superior Panels has built a number of residential/commercial structures under the radar with limited marketing. Load testing is done in a local university. The companies directive is to bring to the market place a SIP system that has been deeply considered & developed from lessons learned with live projects.
Sadly, the Paneco debacle has given the SIPS industry a bad name. Recently, a potential client was dissuaded to build with SIPS because the builder had heard there were too many problems.
SP will be releasing the new system towards the end of the year.
My house is one of the SP concept houses. We are now living in it & absolutely love it. There is still much to do. For those who want to see a blog on a real live SIP house, please visit Home One Forum http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=69535
Posted Wednesday 3 Sep 2014 @ 12:27:56 am from IP # -
ronahnz
MemberHi,
Not sure if anyone is still interested in this thread but it has been an interesting read and has prompted me to register on this forum and ask a few questions also.
We are committed to building in SIPs as there are many aspects of this material we like e.g quick build times, lower energy costs.
However we are really struggling to find a builder and narrow down which panels would be best.
We cannot owner-build (too stressful with a very young family) yet we are becoming reluctant to go forward with a project builder (who uses SIPs) as their prices seem inflated and their timelines far lengthier than what has been suggested on this forum.
So, can anyone out there confidently recommend a trustworthy REGISTERED builder who is skilled at SIPs construction in Perth, WA.
And a panel supplier who offers a great service and product.
I know there are a couple of Perth based members who have had many contributions to this and other related threads. I wonder how your Perth SIPs journey is going or has ended up?
Any and all advice and recommendations would be so hugely appreciated.
Thanks heaps!Posted Wednesday 1 Oct 2014 @ 6:47:43 am from IP # -
axess
MemberHi Ronahnz,
Many project builders will only build with a very tight range of products that most of their customers are familiar with, their sub-contractors and suppliers are familiar with and their financing bodies are familiar with. This enables them to control their costs and manage their contracts. Any unfamiliar product will cost more to incorporate into their building process eg subbie training, engineering issues, compliance issues and future warranty issues should they arise.
Therefore innovative building products and processes cost more to introduce and become accepted by mainstream builders.
Perhaps one approach could be to offer your proposed house as a research project or display home as a partnership between a panel provider and an industry group such as the Master Builders Association or a building research or training body (TAFE or equivalent).
Owner building may sometimes use less orthodox materials and products because many of the above issues are less important and the build for profit focus is reduced. I speak as the owner builder of a rammed earth house in suburban Melbourne by the way and am also a registered builder as well. Owner builders are often more willing to take risks with design and materials and are to be congratulated for that in this cookie cutter world we live in.
Good luck with your building project and I am sure you will link up with an appropriate builder if you persevere. You could also try the Western Australia builder listings in the Owner Builder magazine or the Green builder sections of the Master Builder Association or HIA.
Posted Thursday 2 Oct 2014 @ 11:07:06 am from IP # -
Risotto
MemberHi, I plan to build 14 apartments with only two story (7 ground and 7 first floor). Would be interested to know if anyone has tried SIPS for this type of development in Perth. Would like to understand typical timeframe from slab down to complete finish, ability to insure thereafter and whether premium is the same as per traditional build and whether the price is effected positvely or megatively when selling the apartments to the market. Also any recommdation of builder that has experience with SIPS (ie has referrnce developments that can be seen in Perth) and will stick to schedule. Regarding build price will this be less, the same or more than conventional build, ignoring the interest savings due to a shorter build time.
Much appreciated.Posted Wednesday 29 Oct 2014 @ 9:41:40 am from IP # -
I have just built an new "Ecomotel" from rammed earth and Structural Insulated panels (SIPs). The SIPs are based on a Magroc Product that is common in Canada and being promoted in NZ and Australia.
I am extremely happy with the SIPs - the outside is from Magnesium Oxide with 5 layers of fibreglass. Very strong. Inside is the EPS which is great for Insulation. The product is great. Unfortunately I could not recommend the supplier, he could not supply and just kept my deposit to fund his other work.
We used Rammed Earth for the internal party walls and SIPs for the outside walls. We also put in double glazed doors/windows and two x insulation in the roof. I hope that the rammed earth will give the thermal mass for temperature stability and the SIPs, double glazing and double insulation will allow the AC to work efficiently (as should be the case).
These rooms should be relatively energy efficient although the doors could be better sealed.
I would use SIPs as my choice of building material for any new house/extension. Such a great product. Not as noise proof as I thought but all else is great. Easy (relatively) to install and not expensive.
I have built for the future and think that we will have vehicles/roads for some time into the future. Maybe not the same as today and I envisage having a solar power electric car charge station attached to my Motel?? What do you think?
Drop by and say hello and tell me all the stuff I dont know.
Alan
Posted Tuesday 4 Nov 2014 @ 8:35:08 am from IP # -
efficient design
MemberEcomotel:- I applaud you in undertaking a step outside of the square and completing your project. If I get down to Port Augusta, I would definitely stop in!
I'm also pleased about your excellent endorsement on MgO SIPS....it's a pity that only a few truly understand the benefits of this building system.
However, it's a pity that you've had a bad experience with the supplier....such experiences do not help this infant industry.
Superior Panels are well into the development of what is a Superior SIP system. We've just returned from China finalizing supply agreements for a MgO board that is considerably superior to anything available on the Australian (& world) market. There's over 2000 manufacturers of MgO board in China. It is very difficult task as there is so much B.S.in that country!!!!Risotto:- In relation to your initial post, I'm not surprised that no one has responded as there is very little information to provide a useful answer. Yes SIPS are fast, energy efficient & cost effective....as Alan above will attest.
You ask about inter-tenancy walls; any SIPS system by themselves will not provide the sound attenuation required by Code. Like framed walls, you need to add 'extra stuff' to the construction of the wall. Alan uses rammed earth to solve this issue & there's a good hint here...MASS (heavy walls are excellent at sound attenuation)Posted Tuesday 4 Nov 2014 @ 8:34:57 pm from IP # -
axess
MemberHi Risotto,
I was told that one of the best construction methods for adjoining motel walls was to use EPS blocks filled with a concrete grout, and either rendered or have plaster board fitted each side. The acoustic performance was claimed to be excellent. This system must be fire rated as well because it is used for residential and commercial building.
I have toured a couple of SIPs construction sites in Melbourne recently and asked about the acoustic performance of their product and was told the best solution was mass and more mass. One potential SIPs client was planning to build in a country town near a busy highway and loved the idea of using SIPs but worried the acoustic performance wasn't high enough for her needs. This is looming as a challenge as noise levels are appearing to rise all over.
I would also be a little concerned about the risk of impact damage to rammed earth in a commercial environment. Chips would be hard to repair over time.
BTW I live in a suburban rammed earth house with double glazed windows and the quietness is one of the things we really love about it.
Posted Tuesday 4 Nov 2014 @ 9:38:48 pm from IP # -
efficient design
MemberThe general expectation of clients is that they think the external SIP walls will provide excellent sound attenuation. In fact, external SIP walls (mine are 125mm) are equivalent to light framed houses with light cladding such as weatherboards or rendered blue-board, therefore acoustic performance is equivalent to this form of construction.
Obviously, a stick framed, brick veneer home will be quieter (with d/glazing)
However, internal SIP partitions provide better sound attenuation than the very commonly used sticks with gyprock.
Posted Tuesday 4 Nov 2014 @ 10:18:37 pm from IP # -
Hi Risotto,
The SIPs are not as soundproof as double brick. I was a bit surprised because I have heat pumps outside for the HW and the noise is noticeable. If you were building adjoining apartments SIPs would not be suitable unless as other readers suggest, you add mass. Sort of defeats the purpose of the SIPs.
I would agree with Mr Efficient Deign above on his comments as far as sound is concerned.
Posted Wednesday 5 Nov 2014 @ 8:11:47 am from IP # -
dlaloum
MemberHi Folks,
I am considering adding a storey and extending an existing double brick melbourne home (1950's).
Since we fitted double glazed low E upvc windows the house has been great in summer, but not so good in winter. - The thermal mass of the double brick seems to pull through the heat of most summer days, and keeps things comfortable through most of spring / autumn - but just doesn't cope with winter.
So our thinking is to insulate the outside of the thermal mass - reverse brick veneer with double brick.
Wondering whether there are weight bearing (possibly MgO) SIP's that would suit?
Has anyone done something like this?
Most existing outside walls would just have SIP's on the outside of them going straight up to the 2nd storey (except for the new extension).Looking for comments, advice, people to talk to?
thank you
David
Posted Tuesday 4 Aug 2015 @ 5:53:44 am from IP # -
efficient design
MemberHi David,
First thougth is yes, this can be done. My SIP house is partly 2-storey MgO....refer http://www.superiorwalls.com.au/gallery/
The over arching question is how BIG is your budget?
You'll essentially be building a new house over top of your existing house. This would be supported by a ring foundation designed to meet your soil type. You'll need to consider that joist/bearers for the new floor will probably need to be supported. This means breaking through your existing floor to provide appropriate foundations & columns to support the new bearers etc.
Your first point of enquiry should be with an engineer who will give advice as to wether it is feasable.
MgO is prone to many issues, be aware that most MgO in Asutralia contains chlorides that will corrode metals & the board will swell/contract with humidity variations. New generation chloride free MgO is the safest path.
Posted Tuesday 4 Aug 2015 @ 7:28:43 am from IP # -
dlaloum
MemberThanks for the response,
Well, one of the questions is how big does it need to be? (my budget)
Right now I have no idea, so I am gathering information and trying to work out what it will take!
Our extension plans require us to replace the roof to extend and to go up - being solid brick inside and out, there are existing weight bearing walls that may well be able to carry the 2nd storey - I am hoping to minimise disruption to much of the existing rooms... (hence the hope that our solid brick walls will take the weight of the new upstairs floor...)
Thank you also for the advice on chloride free MgO - I will research that further
I would like to talk to a vendor / builder of MgO sips that does work in Melbourne.... any suggestions?
thanks
David
Posted Tuesday 4 Aug 2015 @ 7:50:49 am from IP # -
tezz
MemberMelbourne based. http://www.smartsips.com.au
Adelaide http://www.magtechbs.com ((Magroc)Up north, besides Superior Panels, I've just seen
http://www.sabreecopanels.com.au not sure if they are new or phoenixed.Posted Wednesday 5 Aug 2015 @ 1:37:52 am from IP # -
efficient design
MemberSabreecopanels = reincarnated Newline Panel Laminators = reincarnated Paneco = disaster for many homeowners.
Beware & heed my advice as given yesterday.
Posted Wednesday 5 Aug 2015 @ 2:11:39 am from IP # -
efficient design
Memberhttp://www.superiorwalls.com.au
I've been involved with MgO for 6 years....the new board has been tested by an independent agency against Harditex (blueboard)and is more durable & twice the strength of the FC sheet equivalent.
I'm extremely impressed with this new board.Posted Saturday 2 Jan 2016 @ 8:56:53 pm from IP # -
Penelope73
MemberStressed skin panel 2400mm wide floor spans up to 4.8m, roof spans up to 8m. Made from hardwood ply (Tasmanian plantation timbers), insulating core of recycled bottles. R value approx. 4.5 for floors an 8.2 for roof panels. Independently engineered certified Go to http://www.valleyworkshop.com
Posted Monday 21 Mar 2016 @ 8:46:03 am from IP # -
axess
MemberPenelope73,
Good to see Tasmania leading the rest of the country as usual, opting for intelligent local manufacture with efficient sizing less constrained by import restrictions. And with a local chain of environmental responsibility. And the money, tax dollars and work stays here.
BTW Do you have an acoustic rating for these panels?
Posted Monday 21 Mar 2016 @ 8:41:59 pm from IP # -
Penelope73
MemberHello Axess,
The acoustic performance of the eSIP is better than bearers and joists, but may not perform as well as a SIP with a rigid core of polystyrene. An acoustic engineer has yet to do the test, so figures cannot be supplied as yet. The insulation is made from recycled bottles and whilst the Tasmanian hardwood structural ply skin inhibits thermal leakage, where the panels join may be an avenue for acoustic leakage.Non-the less it would be a much better system than conventional building with bearers and joists and one might sell their soul to the environmental devil and opt for polystyrene. Thanks for the comments about Tasmania and intelligent local manufacture. It's the cold weather that keeps us inside scratching our heads for new ideas.
Regards,
PennyPosted Thursday 12 May 2016 @ 1:25:09 am from IP # -
Penelope73
MemberHi All,
Please see the link to a you tube video of some environmentally sustainable structural insulated panels going together on the east coast of Tasmania. Inner core is a plywood grillage system and earth wool insulation which is a composite structure of re-cycled bottles. Spans are up to 8m for a roof and 4.8 meters for a floor. R values are about double conventional building systems. Not sure how this compares with the polystyrene cousins. https://youtu.be/AlB1jxUyft4
Regards,Penny
Posted Friday 29 Jul 2016 @ 4:13:11 am from IP # -
gazmo88
MemberHi Penny,
As a Taswegian living in exile in NSW its great to see the good stuff you folk are doing.
For comparison the Magroc panels we used are R4 for the 165mm external wall panels and R6 for the 265 mm roof panels. Our roofs have a layer of anticon and colorbond which increases the R value. This was needed for BAL. Our walls are covered with 18mm fibre cement weatherboards which add a bit as well. This was required by council for aesthetic reasons.
Is there any technical data online for your panels ? it all sounds extremely interesting.
Cheers
Posted Sunday 31 Jul 2016 @ 3:45:35 am from IP # -
VinceMD
MemberHi,
I live in East Gippsland, Victoria and plan to build a Tiny House on Wheel. Something similar to this one: https://shedsistence.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/dsc_0200.jpg?w=1400&h=&crop=1
Just a bit bigger: 9m long by 2.4m wide by 3.70m high. Two sleeping lofts.
It's not yet popular in Australia but it has picked up in the USA.A few of us are talking online and sharing info and many have started to build. Most THOW are built with timber frame (heavy) but a few are built with steel frame (thermal bridge issue) and even SIP.
Weight and thinest of the wall are extremely important factor. I've read through this post and I can see some great products. As the information is a bit old, is there any experienced SIP builder out there that could recommend some manufacturers (preferably Victoria but might not be a big constraint) that are ok to work on such a small quantity and be involved in the delivery of a Tiny House on whr
eels?Alternatively if you are a SIP builder and want to provide consulting, I'd like to work with a builder to tick the boxes here and there and make sure it's done the right way!
Posted Tuesday 23 Aug 2016 @ 5:56:53 am from IP # -
tanooki_suit
MemberWell, I am in the process of trying to get information from SIPS manufacturers for a new build. I got in contact with a couple of the companies mentioned in this thread and I can tell you that getting information out of Magroc (in South Australia) is like pulling teeth while Superior Panels (Queensland) have been quite responsive.
Posted Wednesday 24 Aug 2016 @ 7:26:47 am from IP # -
tanooki_suit
MemberRegarding the tiny house on wheels - I saw these at the most recent Seymour Alternative Farming Expo. A guy had set up a demonstration site and was building one over the course of the expo. Unfortunately, other than a few photos, I did not collect any information that I could pass on. You could probably contact the expo organisers for his name.
Posted Wednesday 24 Aug 2016 @ 7:29:25 am from IP # -
Clueless
MemberHi all - I'm new to this forum and having read this very long thread I think I may be more confused than before! I will be renovating a small terrace and adding a second storey in Naremburn, (Sydney) in a conservation zone. We are looking at an area of 125sqm.
From what I've read/researched most companies that produce SIPs are WA or SA based, and in terms of builds there appear to be a number of builds in WA and Victoria. I'd like to hear from anyone with experience building/renovating using SIPs in Sydney. My questions on particular are:
1. What SIP panels did you use?
2. Did you have issues finding builders? Or can you recommend builders?
3. Are there any 'lessons learnt' in terms of using these through the build?
4. Some of the other posts have concerned me about the panels absorbing moisture etc... are there any post build issues?
5. Because the house is in a conservation area, I am restricted on how high I can lift the ridge. We are excavating down a bit but I still have head height issues. I hear (some?) SIP panels can be installed as load bearing floors. Has anyone done this - my aim is to try and minimise the ceiling/floor structure between the two floors to get some more head height on the lower floor.Thanks
Rohini
Posted Monday 13 Feb 2017 @ 5:52:26 am from IP #
