IrishPete
Member
I haven't yet bitten the bullet and installed solar PV, as I need to replace my roof first, but it will probably be this year. I do keep an eye on developments though.
I know the NSW government has ceased the FIT for now, but I notice that the FIT had been reduced to 20c per kw/h, gross.
But my electricity costs 22.122c + GST per kw/h. So doesn't this mean that in NSW they're buying my electicity from me at 20c but selling it back to me at more than 24c!?
Pete
Russell Moore
Member
Great isn't it!
Sojin_Muneshi
Member
Yes buying it off you at 20c when large scale Wind and Hydro get paid about 8c for clean energy, - you are definately being ripped off!
Smiles
Sojin Muneshi
The NSW arrangements are going to change. There is a "solar summit" planned for this Friday at which planning for future schemes is supposed to take place. Keep researching systems, components and parts but don't make a decision until after the results of that summit have been announced. I think you would be offered a better deal after the summit.
IrishPete, the FIT was reduced to 20c in October last year.
Even before the scheme was put on hold, those applying to connect, who were going to miss the 300MW cut off, were/are being offered between six and eight cents per kWh for their exported power. (I think as of a couple of days ago, even that is on hold, with some, but not all suppliers)
Until the summit is over, no one is really sure how the playing field is going to be re-designed!
My blog has links to the 3 main information pages for consumers from the NSW government. I'll be watching them closely over the next little while.
http://mypvpanels.blogspot.com/
(there is fairly reliable talk that prices for solar panel modules may drop during 2011 due to a glut on the global markets, particularly Europe, & that drop is expected to reach consumers at some stage - perhaps some small mercies in the pipeline 
IrishPete
Member
I knew about the reduction to 20c FIT gross, and also complete halt to the FIT in NSW.
But I don't recall ever reading anywhere that the 20c gross FIT actually represented a net loss to the customer!
Would it be better (and feasible) not to opt for the smart meter, and just allow the ordinary meter to run backwards when generating? Or is that illegal?
Pete
Pete - rigging meters ain't an option, be they smart or otherwise LOL!
no doubt someone will correct me, but CE for instance, who I'm with, don't yet have smart meters, just different meters for grid connected people - AND, I 'believe' the same meters are used whether one is gross or net.
Tis true though, that with current price increases, 20c gross won't remain popular! Mind you it also depends on relationship between system size & overall usage - all sorts of variables according to individual circumstances. People are able to change from gross to net, or visa versa - and probably post July 1 a lot of gross 20c people will convert to net.
Wait & see what the outcomes are from the summit, you literally can't make any philosophical or financial decisions until the dust has settled in that regard. Plus, of course we then need to see how the market reacts!
IrishPete
Member
Yep, understood that if I am not using the electricity when I am generating it, then my idea may not work, unless the meter runs backwards.
With the federal announcement, and threats of legal action in NSW, the situation is chaning rapidly!
Pete
Russell Moore
Member
If what is stated in speedo's link is true, and the new NSW government retrospectively changes the 60c GFIT, I for one will be 'as mad as hell'. It was the promise of a fixed feed in tariff for 7 years that convinced me to take the plunge and invest over $27,000 on a PV system. If this change happens, can a class action suit be far away?
Russell, the word 'retrospective' was only used in the title of Gile's article, & not implied anywhere in the body of the article, as I read it.
So I "blame" the use of that word on a sub-editor, trying to grab readers' attention - which I guess it did
It does seem however that 'trimming' of the 60c tarrif for the remainder of the Scheme, is under consideration as one of the cost containment options.
Russell Moore
Member
Once in the title, twice in the body..
ok, easy to find, however reading the description of the "claw back" concept, that didn't imply anything retrospective - as that really would be a hornets nest.
"...said one option was to try and “claw back“ the costs of the scheme by either trimming the 60c per megawatt hour feed in tariff that attracted so many customers, or reducing the length of the scheme from seven years to six-and-a-half, for example."
I can't see the idea of reducing the length of the scheme being of huge benefit to Treasury coffers either, as the difference between the cost of electricity and the tarrif, will have lessened considerably towards the end of the scheme.
The NSW govt has published a summary of the Solar Summit Stage One.
the numbers in the presention by Mark Duffy are sobering.
this news story suggests that those of us in NSW are going to have to get our calculators out - nothing on their websites (as yet)
the change from 60c to 40c is NOT retrospective, it will be effective from 1 July 2011. govt website should be updated by close of business today!
Happy Friday 13th !!
Russell Moore
Member
Well this is just great, 110,000 households in NSW believed that we would be locked into a 60c GFIT for seven years commencing on the 01/01/2010, now after 18 months the pollies (of a different party) have shafted all of us! Way to go to encourage people to invest in solar..
My wife always said that she did not trust 'them' to honour the aggreement, sad to say she was right..
What now? Would there be grounds for a class action?
It isn't retrospective - no grounds I wouldn't think.
Must be a female thing as, like your wife I also didn't assume that the 60c tarrif was necessarily safe & secure for the duration & did various tarrif rates (incl 40c) before I signed up.
johnpao
Member
Aw crappity crap, as my teenage daughter would say. But it does seem a little unfair to change the gaolposts after encouraging people to do the figures, stump up the cash and get on board, knowing it was a certain figure for a certain time - I assumed a legally binding contract?...
And to rub salt into the wound - I dug this up from the nsw govt website at the time:
"Creating certainty in the feed-in-tariff scheme is one way we can encourage families to invest in solar technology and support the clean energy industry." and
"Under our scheme, homeowners will know up-front how much they will be paid for all the energy their solar panels produce." and even this as of a couple of days ago:
"Customers whose systems were already connected to the grid by 27 October 2010 are not affected by the tariff changes."
Not sure what's going on here...
john the presentation materials from the summit made clear that a tarrif change was in the offing -- something had to 'give' as the cost blowout of the Scheme was unsustainable (no pun intended).
depending on system size & household usage etc, some people were going to make significant financial gains, well beyond modest 'windfalls' - and it could be argued that taxpayers funds aren't a personal investment vehicle
The rate was too high and was delivering windfall profits to scheme participants. Its shoddy that the government changes the rules but their first rules were clearly badly calibrated. My payback period just got a whole lot longer but it is still in the single digits and I'm still happy with that.
johnpao
Member
But that was the offer at the time - for 7 years at 60 cents. Of course it was generous but a deal's a deal, if not a contract to be honoured like most people probably thought.
So what if after another year things are looking a little grim in treasury - reduce it to 30 cents - 25 cents - how low can it go???
well, it wasn't really a 'deal' was it, as none of us signed contracts with the state govt - it was legislation that many wanted to believe couldn't, or wouldn't be changed.
(I think the guys have done their sums fairly carefully - remember too, that some of the wiser heads in the solar industry, right at the beginning said that 60c was too high)
johnpao
Member
hmmm, don't think you really need it signed - just an offer and acceptance and I think most people were lead to believe it was a fixed contract, just like any other.
I don't want to turn this into a debate about 60c/40c haves and have-nots, or which political party is guilty - but it raises valid questions about retrospective legislation that disadvantages I would have thought...
So my question - why not drop it to 5c a kw?
IAEA
Member
johnpao states......
"So my question - why not drop it to 5c a kWh?"
Why not to zero?
This, after all from members on this fora who are all for the environment should not begrudge outlaying their money and not be the suckling pig on the public teat.
How many have actually "hooked on" due to the dollar sign that was propped up in front of them?
This has been out and out greed being brought into play at the expense of All NSW electricity consumers.
IAEA.
Posted: Friday 13 May, 2011 5:30PM
Russell Moore
Member
So come 1st July will we see a drop in the price of electricity in NSW? Wasn't the so called over generous GFIT one of the reasons for the soaring prices? I won't hold my breath...
Since we were passed across to Origin from IE (without our consent) our electricity bill has risen close to 30%, and in July it is supposed to rise again by 17%..
Something stinks here.
Russell Moore
Member
IAEA, the 60c GFIT carrot was placed in front of us by our state government, it was the final push that many people who had been contemplating solar needed to take the expensive plunge. Little did we know that the carrot was poisoned! Calling us greedy is an insult.
Russell (re)read the 100+ page IPART report, GFIT wasn't a measurable factor in price increases, even though IPART was scathing about the scheme.
those who chose solar systems to match their consumption are not measurably hurt by this change.
