Alternative Technology Assn Forums

1. 

   swanning_it
   Member

   One thing I can't fathom yet, is why heat pump hot water systems are so expensive?

   Sizable air conds. can be bought for under $1000. Sizable storage HWSs can be bought under $1000 and between them they have all the components for a heat pump unit, with quite a few unnecessary spare parts (heating elements, indoor fan unit etc) so in my way of thinking, a reasonable heat pump for example should be about $1500 without the need for gov't incentives. Given that the "market" is already there with all new dwellings having solar/heat pump/gas hot water (I think) and resistive HWS soon won't be available at all, is it the gov't incentives alone that is holding up these high prices of between $3k and $5k a unit?

   Posted Thursday 9 Dec 2010 @ 7:37:41 pm from IP #
2. 

   munter
   Member

   Good question. I'd guess that it is a mix of the subsidy inflating the price and lower volumes resulting in higher manufacturing costs than air con. There might also be a little more raw material in a hot water tank but this wouldn't justify the price difference.

   Posted Thursday 9 Dec 2010 @ 10:08:00 pm from IP #
3. 

   Lance
   Key Master

   I've always assumed it was manufacturers charging what the market will bear. Look at the average close coupled solar hot water system. You can buy a pair of panels for around $1200 and a tank for under a grand, yet the cheapest systms are close to $4k...

   Posted Thursday 9 Dec 2010 @ 11:32:33 pm from IP #
4. 

   Diver
   Member

   Agree with Munter.

   Research and development plus tooling costs of medium to long run products normally require a payback period of several years and projected sales volumes are guesstimates at best.

   There is a tend for perceived high value or up-market products to have shorter pay back times and resultant initial higher consumer costs, the balance sheets allowing for later price reductions which increase volume. This pricing structure is further encouraged by government subsidies but can often also apply to new up-market consumables like plasma TV's.

   Many up-market products are also factored with a premium price as a marketing ploy to appeal to the ego of the target market.

   Government subsidies often help the manufacturer more than the consumer and prices often fall once the subsidies cease. By then, the development costs have been largely recouped and consumers who have waited are often at a financial advantage over others who purchased as little as a year previous.

   In many instances, government subsidies effectively part subsidise product development and tooling costs of overseas imports. This is rarely considered by bureaucratic policy makers.

   EDIT: And Lance!

   Posted Friday 10 Dec 2010 @ 12:10:17 am from IP #
5. 

   sun2steam
   Member

   I can tell in case of solar hot water systems, that the cost of certification to Australian standards is at least about $50000 plus fat yearly fees. This protects the established market players and keeps competition out. This of course keeps prices up as well.

   Nothing against standards. But is it really necessary to have such a high cost for certifying systems that have already European approval?

   Posted Friday 10 Dec 2010 @ 1:38:49 am from IP #
6. 

   Lance
   Key Master

   Actually, that's a good point, and a great example of the ridiculous costs placed on companies trying to get certification for products. Have to say it really irritates me that everything has to be recertified in Oz, even if it has top level Euro certifications already, is completely unnecessary and a waste of time and ultimately the customers' money. But, seems to be one of the ways we protect local markets here.

   Posted Friday 10 Dec 2010 @ 2:59:14 am from IP #
7. 

   thatmosis
   Member

   Another way of thinking is that because these items are being put into homes at the behest of the statutory bodies the manufacturer can charge what they like, captive audience so to speak. The consumer is left with no option but to buy these items and therefore the price goes up. Its the way business works. Baby capsules were a good case in point, before they were made compulsory they were 25 to 33% cheaper than after the legislation. Have a look at everything that has been sold before legislation decided that it must be used, the price always rise above and beyond that which covers the extra incurred cost for the manufacturer. The next will be reversing cameras for vehicle, currently less than $150 installed but when they are made compulsory they will be in the vicinity of $300 plus installation. The nature of the beast.

   Posted Friday 10 Dec 2010 @ 4:17:36 am from IP #
8. 

   Greenozi
   Member

   S2s"I can tell in case of solar hot water systems, that the cost of certification to Australian standards is at least about $50000 plus fat yearly fees"

   I wonder what is all this Australian certification about? Protecting scaremongering?
   I had before simple design not certified vacuum tube system on my roof and plenty of boiling hot water everyday. Cost me $700 for 240L SS cylinder and 24 x 180 cm tubes and SS frame - electronic controller and valves all together. I did installation myself so no other cost besides a few meters of connecting pipe.

   Now I have certified 400L split system installed obligatory by my builder. Solarpower hot water system -SP4002 and after installing second pump - since one was not able to pump the water up to the roof where collector is the maximum temperature in the cylinder never exceeded 59 C since installation (to clarify I perform regular measurement inside cylinder, at the top- not outgoing water which is tempered by valve of course). Thankfully electric boosting is still not wired otherwise my system cold be called " Electric Water Heater with solar boosting capability".

   I may ask: " Who certify "certifiers" in this country? since doesn't look that besides charging enormous amount for bureaucratic certification procedure offer real quarantine that device is even reasonably efficient. 59 C on Gold Cost in still hot weather looks like joke, for me not any certified product. I guess if we turn table this "crap" never could see European approval, and can not be sold anywhere beside Australia. Now we have market well protected for all craps to be sold - similar situation to automotive industry BTW.

   Shouldn't be any audit process in the place for all this so called green energy products to meet efficiency criteria on site ?

   Posted Thursday 14 Apr 2011 @ 12:27:59 am from IP #
9. 

   swanning_it
   Member

   I believe the certifier of certifiers is NATA.

   http://www.nata.asn.au/

   Posted Thursday 14 Apr 2011 @ 1:42:24 am from IP #

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