Options for timber finish? « Alternative Technology Assn Forums

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Options for timber finish?

(24 posts) (15 voices)

Started 11 years ago by annac
Latest reply from dax

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annac
Member

We're needing to refinish the timber surfaces at our family beach house and I'd like to do it with eco-friendly finishes this time. We need an exterior product for wooden window frames and under-eave beams (we used to use Sikkens) and an interior product for window frames and beams (used to use Estapol).

It would be good to find durable products that won't require reapplication for a few years too, although I know that 'durable' and 'all-natural' don't necessarily go hand-in-hand.

Anyone got any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

Posted Wednesday 8 Dec 2010 @ 5:54:26 am from IP #
dave lawrence
Member

do you mean clear finishes or painted finishes . clear finishes are a LOT more problematic but can be done. I am a fan of lanoline based products but they do REQUIRE Reapplying. check out http://www.house-paint.com.au/

Posted Wednesday 8 Dec 2010 @ 9:46:35 am from IP #
Frateco
Member

Dave, thanks for that link. I'm always on the lookout for natural paint finishes.

annac, I'd say your under-eave beams are going to require less attention than your windows & sills (without seeing it obviously). Being in the timber game, I often need to tell people that if they use decking oil on their decks, they'll need to reapply every 6 months. The same goes for windows & sills.

Just be aware that any natural finish based on linseed oil or any natural oil, needs to have a fungicide to prevent mould. Oil is the best solution on timber but under constant weathering (sun & rain), it needs to be maintained.

Painted finishes have UV resistance which stops the timber from degrading and generally resist water penetration therefore lasting longer but they must be sanded back before reapplication.

Clear/stained finishes are easier to mainain since they just need a wipeover and reapply. Dave, you want to add anything or correct me?

Posted Wednesday 8 Dec 2010 @ 11:20:25 pm from IP #
dave lawrence
Member

all i'd say is i built an uncovered hardwood deck here in byron bay 16 years ago and relentlessly re-oiled it every 6 months for years . I gave up in the end , had to rebuild it as the decking deteriorated too much . We rebuilt it , this time with a roof . moral of the story .....cover your deck and protect the timber from the ravages of sun and rain !! This time I used timbertreat by cooee , which is lanoline based (and australian made ) . i really like it but you still have to retreat the timber periodically.
I agree with everything Frateco said.

Posted Thursday 9 Dec 2010 @ 1:40:01 am from IP #
cava
Member

Frateco, what about a bees wax based sealant? I keep bees, and therefore have an available supply of wax.

Posted Thursday 9 Dec 2010 @ 4:29:54 am from IP #
Frateco
Member

cava, beeswax will soak into the timber as it does on indoor furniture. But the sun dries the timber and opens it up and that's how you get moisture penetration. Beeswax will be of benefit but you would need to apply it constantly to inhibit the splitting. Beeswax would melt, absorb into the timber and would need to be reapply soon to protect the surface. Again, since it's organic, I would think a fungicide is needed.

I must say that my advice has always been to use opaque finishes on exterior timber - it will last longer and prevent UV degradation. Anything oil-based will be of greatest benefit over acrylic.

Posted Sunday 12 Dec 2010 @ 11:43:27 pm from IP #
Andrew Rogers
Member

You could try the Organoil range of products - they might have something suitable. See http://www.organoil.com.au/

Posted Monday 13 Dec 2010 @ 11:06:23 am from IP #
hamish05
Member

Dave has the magic answer to decks (in particular) in my experience. Any surface finish out of the rain/weather will have longevity over those that are exposed.

I had to replace my deck timbers after 7 yrs, mainly because they were upside down (ribs up) the wrong timber selection, and uncovered.

This time I have used Meranti timber (probably not very eco friendly I know) and have mostly covered the area with a roof. I have used a water based Intergrain UltraDeck coating that claims to be durable and "long lasting for exterior timber". Also, it claims to be made for Australian Conditions, High Performance and Enviro Friendly, what ever all that means.

After about 12 months, my new deck showed signs of weather degradation in the uncovered areas, although not badly. I am now of the opinion that I will probably need to recoat each year. Of interest is that the original wood color has remained which I am particularly pleased about.

annac, what ever product you choose, you will have to ensure there are no compatibility problems with the finishes you have used previously

Posted Wednesday 15 Dec 2010 @ 12:56:39 am from IP #
redd
Member

You could have a look at a product called Cutek cd50 (oil) , I've recently done some decks and external doors with it close to the beach. I can't really comment on its longevity yet , but it is very easy to use, goes on like water and seems to penetrate very well into the timber - looks very good at the moment but of course time will tell . It came recommended to me by both a manufacturer of timber cladding (woodform architectectural) and a cedar windows manufacturer

Intending to use it on timber cladding and windows on an upcoming build. It will need reappling every 2-3 years I imagine - but its ease of use is the thing I like about it.

Posted Wednesday 15 Dec 2010 @ 1:55:46 am from IP #
annac
Member

Thanks everyone. I am looking for clear finishes for both inside and outside - not paint (which is a shame as I've found lots of interesting-looking eco paint ranges). The Sikkens product used previously on the exterior timber was apparently more in line with a 'wood preserver' than a varnish; my folks tell me that it went on like water, and it certainly hasn't left a varnish-like coating.

I'll chase up the products already suggested, but if anyone has anything further, that would be great.

Posted Thursday 16 Dec 2010 @ 3:43:48 am from IP #
dave lawrence
Member

sikkens is definitely not eco friendly

Posted Thursday 16 Dec 2010 @ 8:31:16 pm from IP #
angela
Member

Hi annac, if you are looking for a natural finish, natural as in no synthetic by products,there isn't one. Natural products need the pigments to help protect agains the UV rays and weathering.To really find a natural, eco friendly product, ask for the ingredient list, if they cannot supply it then how are you to know if it is "natural".
Clear internal oils is not issue, check out http://www.livos.com.au there is a huge gallery page with various uses, also for deck, but not clear. http://www.anrofloorcare.com.au sands and oils floor too.

Posted Friday 17 Dec 2010 @ 3:10:22 am from IP #
Tony C
Member

I have been looking for an external product to protect a new deck built with treated pine sleepers. I want to add some colour but it is confusing when you look at the different products.

I dont want to stain because the colour changes with each coat, oiling does not appear to change the colour (let me know if this is wrong). And has anyone used 'aquadeck'? It says that it lasts longer than oil, but I dont know about colouring, or whether it is just advertising blurb. Has anyone used it?

Posted Tuesday 21 Dec 2010 @ 3:39:28 am from IP #
einadia
Member

Annac, What did you eventually use, and how has it fared? Are your windows fixed or opening?

I have some sliding Red Ironbark windows facing west and exposed to sun, rain and frost. They had 3 coats of Norglass Poly Matt on them and in less than a year the finish was deteriorating. They were sanded and I put 6 coats of Norglass Poly Gloss on them, which is supposed to withstand UV rays better than the Matt.

I also put Norglass (2 coats Clear + 1 Matt on surfaces not exposed to direct sun and 5 coats Clear and 1 Matt on direct sun exposed surfaces) on 2 Blackbutt external doors (which never get frost on and rarely rain). I did this nearly a year ago, and so far so good (except for the door step, which gets dirt, grit, etc on which has started to wear the surface).

Posted Friday 3 Oct 2014 @ 12:43:38 am from IP #
Greg
Member

I had three coats of sikkens product cetol HLs. Did not last 1 year where its exposed to the sun.
I'm about to try Haymes products (better as water based and Australian). I've been told I'll get three times as long as the sikkens.
I was also told that the UV protection increases with the darkness of the colour so if can tolerate it choose a darker stain for longer protection.

Posted Friday 3 Oct 2014 @ 6:40:35 am from IP #
Flying high
Member

We have a large area of decking, Merbau, all exposed, fairly certain we used wattyl as the stain and I don't think it lasted 12 months.

Timber was all prepped properly, no short cuts, two coats, brush in the spaces and lambs wool pads.

So will have to redo the deck again, will be trying the Aqua one this time although I did read about a homemade brew of turps and linseed oil, supposedly very good going by the online reports.

90 + sqm of decking to clean and re coat, not looking forward to this job

Anyway, not sure how you'd go with a natural product but certainly interested to hear if you find a long lasting one.

Cheers

Posted Saturday 4 Oct 2014 @ 4:27:00 am from IP #
Morbo
Member

original post does not mention decks?

However, I got some water based stuff on my deck which kind of dissolves. I put a piece of merbau in the backyard, half of it oiled with cutek, half with that Oikos stuff. While the pigments seem to last, the oil disappears. Recently I re coated some bits with Cutek burned red, after 2 years in the driveway. It turned all black instead of red. Meaning, underneath the pigments the protection is all gone, and instead of becoming red again, the oil just amplified the black colour of the old timber.
The next deck will be modwood. Left some samples rotting on the driveway (spec says, don't leave it in water/wet environments, so I did just that to see, how it lasts). And alas, it still looks like new, no swelling, nothing.
No idea, if there are moldings/funny shapes available in reconstituted timber (modwood just being one of them).

Posted Saturday 4 Oct 2014 @ 5:40:15 am from IP #
Flying high
Member

No it didn't but one Respondant did mention 'deck' anyway, if a stain or paint lasts on an uncovered deck by all accounts it should have no issues on frames or other external timbers!
There were some exy brands mentioned and it seems that most do not live up to their manufacturers claims.

Posted Saturday 4 Oct 2014 @ 7:46:55 am from IP #
Morbo
Member

the Oikos does not. Does not really penetrate and if water sits on it, i dissolves over time. Oil you would have to redo every 6 months.

Posted Saturday 4 Oct 2014 @ 8:51:04 am from IP #
Greg
Member

Maybe we should all just get used to grey as suitable colour for timber and leave it alone.

I also have a deck I'm not looking forward to redoing!

Posted Thursday 9 Oct 2014 @ 11:49:00 pm from IP #
ankerre
Member

I have a timber packing shed on an orchard which has a conservation overlay on it. I need to paint it and have commenced one wall - has not been painted for 30 years. The one wall covered has taken considerable time and coverage has been OK but not great. I now see that I need to seal over the rusted nails as they 'bleed through'. Is there any product I can use to cover/seal these nails and then undercoat the surface? cheers, ankerre

Posted Friday 10 Oct 2014 @ 3:19:18 am from IP #
Morbo
Member

hm, got that Oikos stuff, not happy. Worse than paint. Dissolves slowly when water stays on it. Have to recoat twice a year

Posted Wednesday 13 Jul 2016 @ 5:16:25 am from IP #
Greg
Member

I've tried a few different oils and they have no real longevity. I recently refinished my ( two ) decks and this time I've used an acrylic by Haymes. Twelve months in and its keeping its colour and protective aspects.
One section of deck has had rain and snow on it continuously for weeks and the finish went white ( water breaking it down I'm guessing ) but after a couple of dry days its looks ok. It not expected to cope with immersion which is pretty much what its had lately so we'll see how it goes.
I have exposed timber under the eaves and discovered it was only ever primed with Haymes uvex product. All the timbers still look good so it shows how much better timber retains its finish when covered from the elements.

Posted Wednesday 13 Jul 2016 @ 6:31:30 am from IP #
dax
Member

Boiled linseed oil and terabin as a hardener, is one of the timber finishes we've always used for internal wood finishing. We've also use heated seed oils, including used vegetable oil and terabin. The used veggie oil does take some working, but once you get it right, it works excellently for the long term. I have some outside wooden furniture sealed with used veggie oil more than 20 years ago, they only require cleaning and buffing to return them to a brilliant finish.

Fully renovated a 15m Jarrah fishing boat and used boiled linseed inside and veggie oil outside, heating the veggie oil makes it easier to work with and you can put on a couple of layers without terabin, let it soak in for a couple of days, put a coat on with terabin and it seals the wood.

Posted Wednesday 13 Jul 2016 @ 11:52:16 pm from IP #

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