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Apricus Or Hills Evacuated Tube Solar HW System?

(402 posts) (104 voices)
  • Started 13 years ago by GJOESQ
  • Latest reply from Manacod

Tags:

  • air bleed valve
  • air remittance valve
  • Apricus
  • electric boost
  • electric boosting
  • Evacuated Tube
  • grunfos pump
  • manifold
  • manual switch
  • monitoring
  • overheating
  • PTR valve
  • Solar water heater
  • stainless tank
  • stratification
  • wall mount
  • water loss in Solar hot water systems
12…14Next »
  1. GJOESQ

    GJOESQ
    Member

    Knowledgeable ATA Members,

    I'm in the process of selecting an evacuated tube Solar HW system and have received quotes for both the Apricus and Hills products.

    The Apricus folks tell me that their product is excellent and I won't be disappointed with it.

    The Hills folks tell me the opposite, stating that the Apricus system i) manifold isn't as efficient as theirs, ii) doesn't have a steam release valve, iii) has poorer quality pump, iv) shouldn't offer a glass lines tank as it won't stand the 80 degree C temperatures.

    The Hills is more expensive. Is it really that much better?

    Posted Saturday 9 May 2009 @ 9:48:25 am from IP #
  2. Sunshine

    Sunshine
    Member

    GJOESQ,

    I have a 30 tube Hills with a 315L stainless tank. Hills only offer stainless tanks, whilst Apricus offer the option of both. I've had it for 8 months now with electric boost. Am very happy with it, haven't needed to use electric boost yet in all that time.
    Personally, I wouldn't bother with Vitreous Enamel, as you have to remember to replace the anodes (which cost money), and even then they won't last as long as the stainless tanks.
    The Hills system shuts down at 95 degrees in the storage tank, so yes, it does get very hot.
    I never got a quote on the Apricus system as Hills has been in Australia for many years, so if any spares are required further on down the track, then they may have better spares supply.
    A steam release valve may be necessary, to stop the system stressing in the middle of summer if the storage tank reaches 95 degrees and the system shuts down.. The heat and pressure needs to go somewhere..

    Posted Saturday 9 May 2009 @ 1:20:55 pm from IP #
  3. GJOESQ

    GJOESQ
    Member

    Thanx very much, Sunshine, for your reply. It seems that the evacuated tubes are definitely superior to the flat panel. I just had a look at my old flat panels that died 15 years ago and it appears that the water ran through pipes to heat up under the glass! My how technology has moved on ...

    I guess I want to know if the negative claims of the Hills mob in respect of Apricus are correct. I agree that a steam release valve is essential. However, one would think that Apricus would have as well. I would certainly only go the the SS tank. My system would be a 22 tuber with a 250 litre tank.

    BTW, where are you located? I'm in Sydney.

    Posted Sunday 10 May 2009 @ 12:55:36 pm from IP #
  4. norbert

    norbert
    Member

    We are going to install a 30 tube Apricus pretty soon and according to our plumber it supposed to be a good system.I'm going to have a word with him in regards to Hills claims about the Apricus as I believe he has installed both systems.

    Posted Sunday 10 May 2009 @ 3:14:35 pm from IP #
  5. Sunshine

    Sunshine
    Member

    GJOESQ,

    I am in Brisbane, we are a family of 3. Upgrading number of tubes and tank size will reduce likelyhood of boost being required.
    If you are a family of 2, a 22tube/250 litre tank will be fine, but I would recommend upgrading if you have a larger family.
    It just means you won't need to rely on electric backup.
    The gas boost is an extra $800 or so, so a larger 30 tube/315L model electric boost can be had for the same price as a 22 tube/250L model.
    The flat panel Solarhart systems located in Brisbane all seem to have an ugly, hideous looking mould or growth under the glass. Looks unsightly. not that efficient either.

    Posted Sunday 10 May 2009 @ 11:18:26 pm from IP #
  6. petanque

    petanque
    Member

    While I am not familiar with the systems if this manifold is less efferent so what happens to the lost heat?

    Also of you can get 20% greater collection (heating) area on a system that is 5% less efficient what gives more heating per dollar?

    What will happen in 10 to 20 years and if one system gives a longer life this may be worth a small premium.

    Equally you may not live in the house in 15 years time so it is of no consequence to you.

    It would seem sensible to get the cheapest system that is adequate for the job.

    Defining adequate may be the challenge.

    If the Hills system is superior quality they should be prepared to put their money were their mouth is and offer a longer guarantee.

    It seems talk is cheap when it comes to sales people.

    Posted Monday 11 May 2009 @ 12:55:57 am from IP #
  7. GJOESQ

    GJOESQ
    Member

    I just got the quote from Endless Solar and the 22 tube Hills system they are going to install will come in at about $1,200 more than the 30 tube Apricus system. What I really need to know is if it's that much better to warrant the extra cost!

    This is all so frustratingly confusing.

    Posted Monday 11 May 2009 @ 1:17:31 am from IP #
  8. GJOESQ

    GJOESQ
    Member

    BTW, I just wanted to say that the folks to whom I've spoken at Endless Solar, Leah, Lester and Wayne, ARE very passionate about their systems and the cause of sustainability. Indeed, Leah will be at the ATA Sydney branch meeting tomorrow night!

    I'm going to phone Apricus now and grill them (excuse the pun).

    Posted Monday 11 May 2009 @ 1:32:34 am from IP #
  9. Sunshine

    Sunshine
    Member

    GJOESQ,

    I paid $4809 for a Hills 30 tube 315 litre system installed.
    That is a big price variation, shop around for other Hills installers, my quotes for Hills varied by around $1500 between installers.
    If the 30 tube Apricus is $1200 cheaper than a Hills 22 tube with the same sized SS tank, then the Apricus would be looking tempting..

    Posted Monday 11 May 2009 @ 1:52:36 am from IP #
  10. GJOESQ

    GJOESQ
    Member

    OK, here we go. I've just had a long conversation from Brian, one of the directors of Apricus, 1300 277 428, and here is the result:

    i) Steam Outlet - Apricus have chosen a closed system because they found the steam release outlet failed after a relatively short time, one to two years. Also, he stated that the one Hills use is NOT watermarked;

    ii) Manifold Quality - Apricus offers a 15 year manifold warranty compared with Hills' ten year warranty. Brian stated that the Apricus manifold has only six weld points compared to Hills' 64. Fewer weld points reduces risk of failure, hence the longer warranty;

    iii) Pump Quality - Brian said that the pumps are the weakest link in the system. The pump they have been using for the last three months is a Bianco three speed pump with stainless steel components. He gets them from the Plumbers Co-Op;

    iv) Why 30 Tubes - More tubes equal less back up use, 3 kW of energy as opposed to 2.2 kW;

    v) Apricus' Cheaper Price - Tubes are made in China, huge state-of-the-art factory, cheaper labour, massive scale of production.

    Given Brian's detailed and fulsome explanations I can't see any reason why the Hills system is worth a further $1,200 investment by a prospective purchaser. I'm going to attend the ATA Sydney Central Branch tomorrow night and speak with Leah and anyone else who may be well informed in these matters before we make our final decision.

    My goodness, how the thot plickens!!

    Posted Monday 11 May 2009 @ 2:34:19 am from IP #
  11. petanque

    petanque
    Member

    Assuming a similar efficiency of the tubes the bigger unit will heat more.

    Equally if you only need a system that has 2 square meter collector there is little value in getting a bigger one.

    The important issue is the job you want it to do. It may be helpful to think of this as a yes or no answer rather than getting bogged down in all the details.

    If the Chinese system is bigger, cheaper and has a better guarantee. The only question reaming is how much extra are you prepared to pay to keep an uncompetitive Australian company in business?

    Do you think the company directors of hills are more deserving of your money than you are?

    These are personal issues.

    Posted Tuesday 12 May 2009 @ 3:17:20 am from IP #
  12. GJOESQ

    GJOESQ
    Member

    I believe that the Hills tubes are made in China as well.

    Posted Tuesday 12 May 2009 @ 8:53:38 am from IP #
  13. munter

    munter
    Member

    This is a little off topic but I've just come back from China where I inspected a heavy industrial manufacturing facility. The quality of product coming from this factory was equal or better than that we could source locally. This is certainly not universal across all sectors or products but is worth considering when making a purchasing decision. Chinese manufacture does not necessarily mean inferior quality.

    Posted Tuesday 12 May 2009 @ 11:51:16 am from IP #
  14. GJOESQ

    GJOESQ
    Member

    Thanx Munter, that's my impression as well. With their huge population and social needs they HAVE to be good!

    Posted Wednesday 13 May 2009 @ 7:33:06 am from IP #
  15. Sunshine

    Sunshine
    Member

    The Everlast stainless steel tanks are the same between Apricus and Hills systems.
    The tubes between manufacturers are interchangeable I have been advised.
    So that really only leaves the pump and manifold as having the different parts between the brands.
    One area of concern with the Apricus is how does the Apricus system release pressure in the manifold in summer, when the pump switches off when the water temperature reaches 95 degrees in the tank?
    When the water flow stops, the water in the manifold will boil, where/how does the pressure get released without a pressure relief valve in the manifold? This is a real concern to me.

    Posted Wednesday 13 May 2009 @ 9:03:30 am from IP #
  16. GJOESQ

    GJOESQ
    Member

    Yes, Sunshine, I'll have a chat with the Apricus people. It seems they've been selling the 'closed' system for ages without any problems. I would think that if there was an issue with the absence of an air release valve, we should have heard of a few complains by now.

    Posted Saturday 16 May 2009 @ 2:35:26 pm from IP #
  17. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch
    Member

    Hi guys,
    I've been reading the forums regularly and only now taken the time to register.

    I am also shopping around for an evacuated tube system and am leaning towards the Apricus mainly because of cost.

    I was speaking to a local system supplier and I asked him about the closed Apricus system. Apparently the Apricus manifold is pressure rated but excess pressure is transferred back to the storage tank and released via a conventional hot water pressure relief valve on the tank.

    Stainless v vitreous enamel: has anyone gone with the enamel? I haven't heard anything about this but apparently the enamel tank is eligible for more RECS due the placement of the element in the tank (i.e. halfway up the tank=more efficient=more RECS) as opposed to the stainless(i.e. at bottom of tank=less efficient=less RECS).

    Cheers

    Posted Friday 22 May 2009 @ 9:22:07 pm from IP #
  18. Sunshine

    Sunshine
    Member

    Sasquatch,

    Stainless v vitreous enamel:
    The stainless steel storage tank supplied by Hills and Apricus is made by Everlast and is made of Marine Grade 316 Stainless Steel.
    The advantages are many: Stainless steel is approximately twice as strong as mild steel, used by glass lined (vitreous enamel) cylinders. Stainless steel is a natural barrier to corrosion and rust. Stainless steel can withstand temperatures up to 100

    Posted Friday 22 May 2009 @ 11:27:07 pm from IP #
  19. munter

    munter
    Member

    Why is the heater element in an apparently less efficient position in the stainless steel tanks? ie - Why does the stainless model receive fewer RECS?

    Posted Saturday 23 May 2009 @ 7:43:47 am from IP #
  20. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch
    Member

    Sunshine,
    You seem to have done your research.

    Munter,
    I'm not sure why the position of elements is different between tank types. I am only going by a phone conversation I had with a solar power company (perhaps pushing the Apricus system?).

    There is another company in my area selling AAE systems. Has anyone heard anything about them or had one installed?

    Posted Tuesday 26 May 2009 @ 10:12:26 am from IP #
  21. micko

    micko
    Member

    Hi all, I see some discussion of both Apricus and Hills. Bit of background first, my name is Mick Humphreys, I am actually the CEO of Apricus Solar Co., Ltd. I am an Aussie from Melbourne originally but have been based in China for the past 10 years, developing and manufacturing the Apricus product for the past 6 years. Apricus is an Australian-Sino joint venture. Chris Taylor who owns and manages Apricus Australia is also a shareholder of Apricus Solar. He is based permanently in Sydney. So we are Aussies, not Chinese.

    I would shed some light onto a few of the comments and questions. I understand that this forum is not a place to be promoting a brand of product. I will do my best to keep my comments clean and factual and hopefully educational.

    I encourage you all to compare the information provided by each of the solar companies in the market and make a well informed decision.

    1. Apricus Australia who sells the Apricus systems is an Australian company, same as Hills.

    2. Apricus, Hills, AAE and I think all other evacuated tube system on the market are made in China. Apricus is the only one that has its own manufacturing plant. I know that because I own and run that factory and work there each day. AAE and Hills purchase an OEM product and have no ownership or direct control over the production or quality control.

    The Apricus factory is a fully ISO9001:2008 certified operation which means it meets international management and quality control standards and undergoes regular third party audits from Australian and German inspectors.

    3. The tanks used in the market by Apricus are Everlast (stainless steel) or Aquamax.. Hills use Everlast tanks too. They are both made in Australia.

    Stainless steel is a quality choice but more expensive. It is not suitable for all areas those as certain type of water, particularly bore, will quickly corrode stainless steel. The warranty policy of Everlast provides details of that.

    Vitreous enamel (aka glass lined) tanks don't generally last as long as SS tanks as they are protected by a sacrificial magnesium anode which corrodes instead of the steel. The problem is that hardly anybody actually replaces the anode, which you should do once every 3-4 years (depending on water quality). If you DO replace the anode the tank could last 10+ years.

    4. The reason why the RECS rating are higher for some of the VE tanks when compared to the SS Everlast is due to two factors:
    Firstly the heat loss values on the Aquamax tanks (for example) are lower than Everlast, so each day a little less heat is loss from the tank.
    Secondly if the tank has a MID element the RECs will be much higher than a bottom element (Everlast only has bottom). This is because the bottom ⅓ of the tank (not really exactly mid) is never heated by electricity and so solar can act on that each day. This increases the contribution from solar as it is not trying to heat water that is already hot.

    5. Boosting Correctly: Actual energy savings also comes back to your electric boosting schedule. I always advise that the home owners gets a timer installed (small extra cost) so the boosting can be set to 3-5pm if the majority of the showers are at night (BEST), or a night time boost for morning showers. This will ensure that come morning you have a tank ½ or ¾" full of COLD water which the solar can then act upon throughout the day. Lots of people have evening "off peak" boosting turned on, and in reality if they don't have morning showers, they have a tank that is already full (bottom element) or ⅔ full (mid element) of hot water… the result is that solar doesn't have much to heat and so the tank reaches temp by mid morning. This means you are NOT getting the real solar savings you should.

    So to summarise - EVENING SHOWERS, with a later afternoon boost will maximise your solar savings. This of course only applies to electric boosted systems. Gas systems have a dedicated solar tank and so will always work at optimum efficiency in terms of solar contribution.

    You can learn all about this and more by reading the comprehensive installation manual I have written:

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/103200/A7-05.2.1.9-PB-1.7--Apricus_Solar_Collector_Installation%26Operation_Manual_AUS.pdf

    6. Air Vent - Hills uses them, Apricus does not. Why?

    Firstly let me clarify that the Apricus system is not "closed"… as that would suggest direct mains pressure potable water is NOT circulating through the collector… it is. Both the Hills and Apricus systems are direct flow systems. Adding an air vent does not make the system "open".

    Why is the air vent needed? To release steam!
    When is steam formed? When water is over 100oC? NO, as the systems have a PTRV (pressure relief valve) on the tank set to 850kPa so the boiling temperature is actually about 170oC as the water is under pressure. So only once the solar collector reaches this temp will any steam form. Only during really hot summer weather the collector may exceed this level and actually form steam. When the steam forms it simply clears out the collector, pushing water back down the pipes. This expansion is only 0.7L in the case of an Apricus 30tube, and about double that for a Hills unit. That will cause a similar amount of liquid to be released from the cold water expansion valve on the cold line before the tank, or if that is NOT in place, the PTRV on the tank. The system is designed to work under pressure, so that steam does NOT need to be released - that would be wasting water.

    The only time when that valve has any use is in situations where there is some noises generated by steam forming in the collector when the hot water tap in the house is turned on and the pressure in the system drops…but only when the valve is working… read on.

    The AAVs used by Hills are the Caleffi 250 series - you can see specs for yourself here:

    http://www.caleffi.com/en_IT/Technical_brochures/01133/01133.pdf

    The valve is designed for use during the filling and purging phase of the system, releasing air from the highest point. Normally this is for glycol (anti-freeze) closed loop, used in cold regions. Apricus has experience using this valve in North America - all system installed use them. The valve is normally removed once that initial filling and pressurisation is completed. The shut-off cock is turned off and the valve removed. It is only screwed in again if the system is being maintained. It is my understanding that it is not designed to be used the way it is in Australia.

    A couple of keys issues can cause failure of this valve when it is use in Australia (as has been seen in the field).
    a) They are only rated to 180oC, and the collector can exceed that in strong summer sun which melts the plastic float inside - and they cease working.
    b) They have a very small hole through which the steam is released… and this very quickly blocks up with scale. I know for a fact that Hills have had to replace valves that have failed for both of the above reasons… one of the reasons Apricus does not use them.

    I would guess that after one summer a high % of the valves don't actually work properly anymore.

    Another issue is that they are not watermarked and as Apricus strictly adheres to the Australian Standard guidelines they are not used.

    7. Comparing products. I would never bad mouth Hills, they are a great Australian company. As a company Apricus, and Apricus Australia do not endorse any staff or resellers badmouthing any competition. Unfortunately Apricus seems to often be on the receiving end of negative comments by some competitors, many of which are totally unfounded.

    I am very willing to point out factual comparisons, and defend unqualified claims.

    "The Hills folks tell me the opposite, stating that the Apricus system i) manifold isn't as efficient as theirs, ii) doesn't have a steam release valve, iii) has poorer quality pump, iv) shouldn't offer a glass lines tank as it won't stand the 80 degree C temperatures."
    i) Not as efficient. Where is the data, where is the comparison of Eta0, a1, a2 values, IAM curve and total daily system performance (I am being technical here, but if a claim it going to be made, back it up with factual, clear data please).
    ii) I have addressed the steam valve above. I would be interested in receiving a technical response from other solar companies to my comments above about why they use the valve and how it is performing in the field.
    ii) "Quality" - according to what criteria? What comparison has been made between the pump they are using and the Bianco used by Apricus?
    iii) Correct, glass lined tanks don't like high temperatures and that is why the Apricus solar controller turns off the pump once the tank reaches 70oC thus protecting the tank against extreme temperatures. So no issues there.

    I have heard many other claims too, some quite laughable. Unfortunately the average end user is not that technical and so does not heve the ability to make judgement to the validity of comments. I would simply say that if a comment is made, where is the third party testing data or report to back that up??

    I hope this has been educational. I openly invite any questions you may have about solar, and of course evacuated tube products. I promise I will reply as objectively as possible as I don't want to be seen as using this forum to promote Apricus products. Rather I would like to ensure that you have the knowledge to make an educated choice.

    Posted Tuesday 13 Oct 2009 @ 10:20:59 am from IP #
  22. RogerCrawford

    RogerCrawford
    Member

    Hi Mick
    I would like to thank you for your very detailed, objective and educational reply
    As with most on this forum it is useful to be able to compare these products and your posting helps this cause
    My comparison was between Hills, Apricus and Suntrap
    HIlls and Suntrap got back to me with very detailed quotes, sadly Apricus did not reply (4 months ago).
    Until today I have not followed up further but feel I may give Apricus another try and see if I can get a quote.

    Posted Monday 19 Oct 2009 @ 8:59:11 am from IP #
  23. pat

    pat
    Member

    hi mike i have been interested in these hotwater systems for a while and reading your comments on the apricus system was very helpful as i was told by a sales rep from the other systems about the lack of the steam valve on apricus. well you have answered that one for me but could you tell me what the wattage is on the pump that circulates the water and what happens on a summer sunny day when the power goes out and water cant travel through the system...

    Posted Monday 19 Oct 2009 @ 11:31:29 am from IP #
  24. pauser

    pauser
    Member

    While researching earlier this year, I found out that some, sorry don't know which ones, but, some are fitted with thin glass tubes. This may not be a problem but if you're in a hailstone zone, I'd certainly ask how thick the glass tubes are before signing.

    A thought... If your heater is larger than needed, could the excess hot water be used for daytime space heating? Ok, I understand that it couldn't be too much, but surely it could relieve the load on other sources of space heating.

    Posted Monday 19 Oct 2009 @ 12:19:53 pm from IP #
  25. micko

    micko
    Member

    Roger, can you please let me know where you are located and who you contacted and I can make sure they promptly get back to you as that is not acceptable. Please fire an email to our customer service manager in Sydney Mark Fearman
    Email: mfearman "@" apricus.com.au (written "@" to avoid spam, just write as normal email).

    Pat, we use a 3 speed pump. The three speed settings are 46W, 67W and 100W. Normally speed one is sufficient.
    The pump runs on and off throughout the day, probably a total of about 1-2 hours per day, so in reality only using about 80-100 Watts per day.

    Pauser, all the tubes that are sold in the Australia market need to pass a hail impact test which involves firing a ice ball out of an air gun at the tube. This is similar to about 25mm (1") hail impact. If the tubes are installed at a 45deg angle they will be able to handle larger impact. That being said there may be variance in the supply of tubes for testing and then standard supply. I can't speak for any other products, but in our case each batch of tubes we receive we randomly select a % and do a drop test with 30mm steel ball from 70cm to check the strength. If they are not strong enough they are rejected.

    Excess heat can be used for space heating, spa heating, anything else, but the system would need to be designed to do that. In Canada and NE USA we do a lot of large systems which do both space heating and hot water, but they are installed at around 50-60deg angle to maximise winter output and reduce exposure to summer sun, otherwise there would be much to much heat.

    Posted Wednesday 21 Oct 2009 @ 8:41:30 am from IP #
  26. gully

    gully
    Member

    No one's said much about AAE, which IMO is the best evac. tube system in Australia.

    They sell both vit. enamel and s/steel tanks, use grundfos pump and anodise their manifold (hard anodised? can't remember). The tubes also fit better into the manifold than the Apricus. I don't know about the others, but the AAE controller is also very configurable about temperatures, boosting times (no need for an external timer) so you can have your system tweaked programmatically. I know the pump uses 22 watts and the controller uses 2 watts. It's a split system. Also available is gas storage (non-instant) SHW which I haven't seen much, but would be popular for those who don't like instant systems or can't afford the gas line upgrade.

    I'm just someone who's done their research, i'm not affiliated with AAE, just a happy customer. FYI their website is http://www.aaesolar.com.au and I know the enviroshop (www.enviroshop.com.au) are knowledgable about these SHW systems.

    From what i've read, evac. tubes are the clear winners in Australia, especially from Sydney and south. They are also frost-tolerant to -15 deg without any crazy anti-freeze / glycol / indirect heat exchanging. Also more maintainable, as you can replace individual tubes. How much is it to replace a flat plate, and how easy is it? These are the things many people don't contemplate.

    Hope this offers a bit more info to those contemplating SHW.

    I'll leave you with an interesting question - which tank do you opt for if you are using rainwater as the cold water source? (stainless or vit. enamel)?

    Posted Friday 23 Oct 2009 @ 12:23:51 pm from IP #
  27. eslideit

    eslideit
    Member

    Hi. Just hoping for some opinions regarding the Solastat-Rly http://www.solarmaster.co.nz/SMaster%20NEW%20PDF%27s/SolaStatBrochure.pdf that I'm offered with my Apricus 30 tube system is worth the money (a bit under $300) for my installation where I will be losing my off-peak electricity once my PV panels go in.

    And is it a replacement for a timer? This is in reference to micko's point #5.

    Posted Saturday 24 Oct 2009 @ 11:30:51 am from IP #
  28. Sunshine

    Sunshine
    Member

    eslideit,

    If you get a system larger than what is recommended in the brochures, you probably won't need to boost at all. I have a 30 tube, 315 litre system for 3 people. System has been in for a year now, never used electric boost yet. It is permanently switched off in the fuse box.
    I wouldn't boost unless you need to.
    If everyone has an evening shower, then there is no need to boost at night, as the next morning it will be heated by the sun again.

    Posted Saturday 24 Oct 2009 @ 1:14:41 pm from IP #
  29. dymonite69

    dymonite69
    Member

    Eslideit,

    Summer insolation can be double or even quadruple that of winter depending on your latitude. Only near-equatorial latitudes have a constant insolation throughout the year.

    If you size a system to deliver 100% of your winter needs than most of the capacity will be redundant for the rest of the year i.e. 2-4 times more heating than you need.

    Posted Saturday 24 Oct 2009 @ 1:54:01 pm from IP #
  30. eslideit

    eslideit
    Member

    Thanks guy for the replies.
    I'm getting a 315lt tank (30 tubes) for a household of 4, 2 being kids under 4 right now so I expect their use to go up as the years roll on. The house is in Melbourne.
    Based on that I think there will be times when the system isn't big enough and will need boosting.
    So I'd love to hear from others is if this SolaStat-Rly ("slave relay ... greater efficiency..") will help me in any way and is worth the extra cost? Or is the "default" arrangement good enough?

    Cheers

    Posted Sunday 25 Oct 2009 @ 12:08:04 am from IP #

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