How would you spend $25,000 ? « Alternative Technology Assn Forums

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How would you spend $25,000 ?

(17 posts) (12 voices)

Started 8 years ago by Kylie
Latest reply from dbannon

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Kylie
Member

We were planning to have our new house built with Timbercrete, for environmental (& aesthetic) reasons, but our builder says it would cost $25,000 more than regular bricks. We are considering paying the extra, but I’m wondering if that money may be better spent on other products that may give more environmental benefit for our buck.
We have already specified and budgeted for many environmental things including:

good solar design
good internal thermal mass including phase change material
solar hot water
the best ceiling fans I could find, in every room
curtains & pelmets
bamboo flooring
R2.5 insulation in walls and R3.5 in ceiling, plus colourbond over glasswool blanket over plywood for roof
combination of LED & fluoro lighting
aluminium shutters (uninsulated) over windows which can shade windows when required.

Is there else that we should really have instead of Timbercrete (which we like because of low embodied energy and lower thermal mass, which since it's outside, we prefer)?

Would double glazing and/or low-e glass or increased insulation be better value (for us & the environment? Is double glazing worthwhile in Sydney?
I'd like to have solar panels too, but I don't think we've budgeted for it. Are they well worth the outlay?

Thanks!

Posted Monday 3 Feb 2014 @ 2:59:36 pm from IP #
axess
Member

Hi Kylie,

Good on you for incorporating sustainability into your design.

"Good solar design" includes appropriate orientation, appropriate use of thermal mass, close attention to ventilation and draught control, high insulation levels and reasonable light levels throughout the house. Double glazing can help significantly to achieve these outcomes in combination with the other factors.

Sustainability includes building a smaller house to use less materials and not have to heat or cool underused spaces, attention to the energy use and lifespan of major appliances, and the source of the products used in the building process. You might also consider future access for disability to achieve even more appropriate use of the house into the future.

If your house uses less gas & electricity for hot water, heating, cooling and living from day 1, then rooftop PV and solar HW may offset your use in a significant way. Alternatively, you could plan appropriate roof space for the future installation of these technologies, and perhaps pre-wire and pre-plumb for their later installation. Heat pump technologies might also be worth a look if too many site constraints apply. Battery back-up is also coming in, so you could also plan your wiring layouts to accomodate this system perhaps for the future.

It sounds like you are building a brick veneer house (please correct me if I am wrong) and your builder is wary of using an unfamiliar product on a structure that he carries the warranty for. He might be charging a premium to cover the costs of training his workers in the product (or out-sourcing the work to a Timbercrete approved subbie) and is aware he is carrying the risk of future problems. "Difference" often costs more in the building market place (BTW I live in a rammed earth house so have had a fair bit of exposure to "difference".)

There has been a strong thread on "purging hot air from homes" to cool them at night-time. It would be useful to read it in the context of your proposed design.

Good luck with your project.

Posted Monday 3 Feb 2014 @ 8:42:39 pm from IP #
tom
Member

Other than making you feel good about the environment, I don't think using Timbercrete will give you anything. $25K is a lot to make you feel good. Personally if it were me in your situation, I'd get double glazed windows all around.

Posted Monday 3 Feb 2014 @ 9:08:04 pm from IP #
franks
Member

Save a heap on using cladding rather than brick & tiles.
Aircell double foil as sarking & roof insulation, bulk fibrous insulation, uPVC double glazed windows, slab/tiles, solar HWS, Solar PV, with the money you save not using brick/timbercrete.

Why the fixation with brick anyway ??

Posted Tuesday 4 Feb 2014 @ 7:34:33 am from IP #
arttt
Member

If you want brick then recycled brick is low embodied energy and not so 'different'. Expect it to cost similar to new bricks (little bit more for laying little bit less for the bricks)
the external thermal mass of brick isnt a problem and can help as long as the wall is well insulated.

Posted Tuesday 4 Feb 2014 @ 9:37:42 am from IP #
Johnnojack
Member

Have you considered Hebel panels? They can be cheaper than bricks but it depends on what you are charged for rendering them. Prices range from reasonable to outrageous which cancels out any savings. I would go for double glazing as on my Hebel home the single glazed ally windows are easily the weakest link. Roller shutters have improved some of them enormously, another good investment (for west or east windows).

Posted Tuesday 4 Feb 2014 @ 10:52:55 am from IP #
Kylie
Member

Thanks everyone! We didn't want brick because we a well-insulated, yet lightweight building would work for us better in our environment. We don't like how our current brick veneer releases heat at night in summer making it too hot to sleep.

Our builder priced other options like rendered Hebel and rendered fibre cement as much the same as Timbercrete. More than 1/2 the price increase for Timbercrete was for laying; no doubt the brickie quoted more to cover the 'unknown' factor.

Our new site has the highest rating for bushfire, so we are limited in our choice of external wall.

Recycled brick would be a good compromise but the ones I've see for sale are almost double the cost of new bricks. Still cheaper than Timbercrete, I guess. Arttt, where do I get those cheap recycled bricks?

Yes, I think, we'll drop the Timbercrete and spend the money on recycled brick, double-glazing, solar PV.

More replies still welcome!

Posted Tuesday 4 Feb 2014 @ 11:57:51 am from IP #
dave lawrence
Member

have you considered upsizing the stud frame from standard 90 mm to 120 or 140 thick studs .allowing for gretaer thickness of insulation. also by battening out studs (over RFL ) you provide a cavity for the sarking ot owrk more effectively . standard practice in more advanced/ progressive countries. the cladding itself is of less importance than the way the frame is put together . if you really want to improve performance consider double stud frame ,with cavity between on the west wall for superior performance.. and the outer frame contains the insulation with no interferecne from services which are contained within the inner frame .

Posted Tuesday 4 Feb 2014 @ 7:41:49 pm from IP #
franks
Member

BAL 29/40/FZ, does limit your build options, thats why we spent $3k in clearing trees to get down to a 12.5 BAL.

Posted Tuesday 4 Feb 2014 @ 8:23:17 pm from IP #
arttt
Member

cheap bricks for rendering are maybe $0.50 each plus rendering cost.
cheap bricks that might be ok exposed are more like $0.80
nicer bricks range from maybe $1.00 to $3.00+

In canberra recycled bricks are about $1.20 you can pay $1.50 for better ones depends if you like the rustic look.

http://www.cheapasbricks.com.au/products/ lists a sydney price as from $0.85 (there are others but these guys just have a price on their web site). check out ebay/gumtree/buildbits etc.

so the relative cost of recycled bricks depends on what your comparing it to.

Some brick layers will charge more to lay recycled bricks some wont.

Posted Tuesday 4 Feb 2014 @ 11:56:54 pm from IP #
Johnnojack
Member

I second the 120mm wide stud idea. My nephew has done that and it works a treat.

Posted Wednesday 5 Feb 2014 @ 5:39:38 am from IP #
Greg C
Member

1. Build the house as reverse brick veneer, with say colour bond steel as the outside skin. It should not cost more

2. A Solar PV system but with a battery storage system so you can disconnect the house at peak times and get more out of your solar panels. Properly configured it will give you power autonomy in the case of a fire which could be very handy

Posted Wednesday 5 Feb 2014 @ 10:40:42 am from IP #
franks
Member

Not worth using battery storage to limit grid usage or maximise PV export..battery storage costs are 15-30 cents per kWh.

Posted Wednesday 5 Feb 2014 @ 12:09:42 pm from IP #
Eamon
Member

Greg C said:
1. Build the house as reverse brick veneer, with say colour bond steel as the outside skin. It should not cost more

2. A Solar PV system but with a battery storage system so you can disconnect the house at peak times and get more out of your solar panels. Properly configured it will give you power autonomy in the case of a fire which could be very handy

Have to agree about reverse the brickwork for thermal storage with either colour bond on the outside or cement sheeting with render or any chosen texture finish like tile or paint. Add on solar heating and cooling (Solarventi) for the consistent removal of VOC's and input of clean fresh healthy air. This will leave you with zero running costs and a healthier comfortable internal environment..

Posted Thursday 6 Feb 2014 @ 6:40:42 am from IP #
Glenno
Member

Hi Kylie,
Not sure if you have started building etc but I'd be very interested in knowing how Building With Timbercrete would cost you an extra 25K? I'd be happy to help in costings etc but it does sound like something is strange in that breakdown. 100mm thick Timbercrete blocks will cost you around $54.00 per m2. This has an R.6 rating and a 1hr fire resistance. Using this in a cavity wall (Double Brick)construction will improve everything and probably give you around an R3+ rating and higher fire resistance. We also have Timbercrete block homes in BAL 40 zs no problem, as a 190mm block gives 4hr Fire resistance. I also have a list of brickies in Adelaide and Vic who won't charge the unknown factors. Happy to chat further though if anyone has questions,
Cheers,
Glenn

Posted Friday 4 Apr 2014 @ 3:06:07 am from IP #
perriwinkle
Member

I live in melbourne and i rang steve van ayken a bricklayer in wodonga when i was exploring timbercrete. This was about 1-2 years ago, but he has lots of exp. with this block and was prepared to come to melb. to do a full job.( backyard studio) I reckon you should look him up and chat to him. I also beleive that there is an economical way to design so that you have less wastage of material. Some draftsman/architects have experieince with this product to minimise wastage.

Posted Wednesday 21 May 2014 @ 9:00:35 am from IP #
dbannon
Member

Kylie, we started building in Timbercrete some 7 or 8 years ago. Built stage one with my late wife's help, now, after a long break, under way with stage two. When you look at the cost, keep in mind a few savings that might also apply (depending on how you build)-
* Not plastering some walls.
* No frame, timbercrete supports the roof.
* minimal timber gives you termite confidence
* Far better thermal characteristics than (eg) brick veneer.

The down side is professional brickies are sometimes not keen, their hard earnt skills may not apply to timbercrete. But its a great owner builder product, a lot can be saved if you can handle it.

Our six year old Stage One has not disappointed, easy to heat, good resistance to central Victorian heat waves. And it looks great.

I have started to document my progress on my website, bannons.id.au It might help someone.

David

Posted Wednesday 9 Jul 2014 @ 11:59:44 pm from IP #

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