There is a nice Solar Advances topic so I thought I'd throw in a thread for batteries.
Lithium Sulfur Cell advances
http://techportal.eere.energy.gov/technology.do/techID=1141
Battery advances
(63 posts) (19 voices)-
Baldrick
MemberAfghanistan could become, according to The New York Times “the Saudi Arabia of lithium”. “Lithium is an increasingly vital resource, used in batteries for everything from mobile phones to laptops and key to the future of the electric car.”
China has gained the mining rights to the largest reserves in Afghanistan and are transporting it back to China across their common border.
I think that China has picked a winner here.
PS: Now I bet you didn't know they shared a border.
Posted Wednesday 4 Dec 2013 @ 2:40:18 am from IP # -
Greg
MemberThe things you learn.
ok back to batteries
http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/18/lithium-air-batteries-get-big-boost-genetically-modified-viruses/Posted Sunday 8 Dec 2013 @ 10:41:03 pm from IP # -
StephenF
MemberHere's an interesting one, maybe they will get efficient enough to stick in everyone's closet next to the water heater or something instead of just grid scale. I think in the very long term distributed power will eventually be the norm,especially in large, densely populated countries like Australia where the grid network infrastructure is so expensive and inefficient.
Posted Monday 23 Dec 2013 @ 10:57:21 pm from IP # -
Greg
MemberThe Proton Flow battery from RMIT
http://www.gizmag.com/proton-flow-battery-hydrogen-electricity-rmit/30818/Posted Saturday 15 Feb 2014 @ 1:25:45 am from IP # -
Greg
MemberNon flammable Li-ion
https://uncnews.unc.edu/2014/02/10/researchers-build-nonflammable-lithium-ion-battery/Posted Saturday 15 Feb 2014 @ 1:40:52 am from IP # -
"maybe they will get efficient enough to stick in everyone's closet next to the water heater or something instead of just grid scale"
Already doing it in NZ.
The SunGenie cabinet (similar in size to an external gas hot water cylinder) is 185cm high, 86cm wide and 36cm deep. It contains a 12.3kWh Lithium-ion battery pack, an AC/DC inverter/charge controller, a solar charger and a PC monitoring gateway. The SunGenie Cabinet can go outside your house or inside (e.g. in a garage).
Posted Saturday 15 Feb 2014 @ 8:19:50 am from IP # -
Morbo
MemberBaldrick said:
China has gained the mining rights to the largest reserves in Afghanistan and are transporting it back to China across their common border.they got it all sorted, without firing a single shot...
Seems there is a few km shared border.
Thought the lithium paradise is somewhere in South America?Posted Saturday 15 Feb 2014 @ 11:36:25 am from IP # -
Greg
MemberRockabye, maybe dual purpose would work like these folk use their Prius ? http://www.aprs.org/FD-Prius-Power.html
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/can-a-toyota-prius-power-a-house/Posted Sunday 16 Feb 2014 @ 12:20:00 am from IP # -
Greg
MemberIf the advertising is true this is pretty amazing advance...
http://powerjapanplus.com/about/news.htmlPosted Monday 26 May 2014 @ 8:26:14 am from IP # -
Until I can see the chemistry of the battery referenced in the last post I can only think of it as being snake oil.
The only details given are that both electrodes are made of carbon and that it is even 'organic carbon' (made of cotton).
Chemical batteries need to reversibly oxidize and reduce at least one of the components. If you oxidize carbon, you cannot convert it back into solid black carbon again, at least not at ambient temperatures. So there must be another ingredient (like Li/Li+ in the Li battery or Br2/HBr in the bromine battery. - However nothing is mentioned.
'organic carbon' sounds just like a marketing spin. If you convert cotton into black carbon everything 'organic' is gone in the processing which is usually a very high temperature treatment under exclusion of oxygen.
Buyer beware!
Posted Monday 26 May 2014 @ 11:45:21 pm from IP # -
Benny
MemberI agree sun2 it all sounds like spin, but if you follow the links to the associated university (Kyushu) and then search around you'll find some interesting explanation of the chemistry - in a mixture of Eng and Jap. Yes it does use Li in the electrolyte. e.g.
I'm not saying its all true/accurate but there appears to be something behind it and not just some rogue trying to get investment capital.
Posted Tuesday 27 May 2014 @ 12:52:28 am from IP # -
GE Durathon batteries making headway.
Posted Friday 19 Sep 2014 @ 6:25:58 pm from IP # -
Greg
MemberWow, wouldn't this be awesome...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141013090449.htmPosted Monday 13 Oct 2014 @ 10:19:18 pm from IP # -
johnmath
MemberCar batteries that use O2 from the air:
http://www.21stcentech.com/aluminum-air-battery-powered-car-travels-1800-kilometers-recharge/
Posted Tuesday 14 Oct 2014 @ 2:20:53 am from IP # -
Sunshine
Memberhere's another article about improved Li-ion batteries
http://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/new-advanced-lithiumion-battery-tech-could-revolutionise-electric-vehicles-and-smartphones/story-fn6vihic-1227090950619Posted Wednesday 15 Oct 2014 @ 12:20:06 am from IP # -
I've been trying to source batteries. For 10 different installs. I found the lithium to be 300% the price of traditional AGM/gel. After taking into account the 80% you can drain from lithium and the 20% you can drain from others.
Large battery suppliers are not selling lithium for off-grid. yet....
Posted Wednesday 22 Oct 2014 @ 12:12:13 am from IP # -
David
MemberNatimuk Solar said:
Large battery suppliers are not selling lithium for off-grid. yet....But some of us source LiFePO4 cells and install them for off-grid. I certainly have but I have not found them to anything like 300% more expensive when comparing useable kWh's between them and good Solar PB cells. Yes they are more and recently the drop in the Aus dollar driven the price up, somewhat, PB has also gone up as well.
Posted Wednesday 22 Oct 2014 @ 9:53:40 am from IP # -
I was quoted $60000 for a 500ah LiFePO4 48volt bank. At All Energy last week. A 1750ah gel/agm bank was around $25000.
Where did you buy your batteries?
Posted Thursday 23 Oct 2014 @ 2:36:39 am from IP # -
David
MemberNatimuk Solar said:
Where did you buy your batteries?I've sent you a PM about the supplier. I added a general rundown on whats required to use them and expect a decent result, if you are to use them.
I too have also found that for some reason some people think because they LiFePO4 cells all nicely packed in a metal box they deserved to charge an insane price. Done some negotiation with a couple of potential Chinese suppliers while I made some headway it is hard to convince them, that they will not sell them readily while trying for an over inflated price.
However I have also been discussing with a local wholesale business that has excellent contacts in China, that may well bear very good results, given time.
May well have a winner for supply of cells, one can only hope 
Posted Thursday 23 Oct 2014 @ 8:29:37 am from IP # -
Greg
Memberhmm, not read about these batteries before and now I see the former internode founder intends taking his entire business site off grid (eventually).
Wikipedia list some interesting requirements (last three)
The primary features of the zinc bromine battery are:-High energy density relative to lead–acid batteries
-100% depth of discharge capability on a daily basis[2]
-High cycle life of > 2,000 cycles at 100% depth of discharge, at which point the battery can be serviced to increase cycle life to over 3,500 cycles[citation needed]
-No shelf life limitations as zinc–bromine batteries are non-perishable, unlike lead–acid and lithium-ion batteries, for example.[2]
-Scalable capacities from 10 kW·h (0.036 GJ) to over 500 kW·h (1.8 GJ) systems
-The ability to store energy from any electricity generating source
-The need to be fully discharged every few days to prevent zinc dendrites that can puncture the separator[2]
-The need every 1-4 cycles to short the terminals across a low impedance shunt while running the electrolyte pump, to fully remove zinc from battery plates[2]
-Low areal power (<0.2 W/cm2) during both charge and discharge which translates into a high cost of power.Posted Thursday 5 Mar 2015 @ 6:52:41 am from IP # -
David
MemberI don't know that they will be all that suitable for domestic use, I think there way too complex and have too many moving parts providing a "ready to fail" battery so to speak, I'll stick to LiFePO4 and PB for the moment. Maybe in the future molten salt and liquid metal might be good options however they have drawbacks. I don't think "molten xxxxx" will scale down to off-grid and grid-hybrid systems very well or liquid pumped batteries either.
Posted Thursday 5 Mar 2015 @ 8:07:40 am from IP # -
Greg
MemberAustralia continues to innovate despite the government. http://reneweconomy.com.au/2015/the-ev-revolution-is-coming-charged-by-australian-technology-19884
Posted Thursday 26 Mar 2015 @ 6:43:46 am from IP # -
Greg
MemberAluminium battery advances...
http://news.stanford.edu/pr/2015/pr-aluminum-ion-battery-033115.htmlPosted Saturday 11 Apr 2015 @ 7:12:36 am from IP # -
Greg
MemberSuper capacitor with battery properties.
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/14/4233.abstractPosted Monday 20 Apr 2015 @ 12:54:17 am from IP #
