There is a nice Solar Advances topic so I thought I'd throw in a thread for batteries.
Lithium Sulfur Cell advances
http://techportal.eere.energy.gov/technology.do/techID=1141
There is a nice Solar Advances topic so I thought I'd throw in a thread for batteries.
Lithium Sulfur Cell advances
http://techportal.eere.energy.gov/technology.do/techID=1141
Afghanistan could become, according to The New York Times “the Saudi Arabia of lithium”. “Lithium is an increasingly vital resource, used in batteries for everything from mobile phones to laptops and key to the future of the electric car.”
China has gained the mining rights to the largest reserves in Afghanistan and are transporting it back to China across their common border.
I think that China has picked a winner here.
PS: Now I bet you didn't know they shared a border.
The things you learn.
ok back to batteries
http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/18/lithium-air-batteries-get-big-boost-genetically-modified-viruses/
Here's an interesting one, maybe they will get efficient enough to stick in everyone's closet next to the water heater or something instead of just grid scale. I think in the very long term distributed power will eventually be the norm,especially in large, densely populated countries like Australia where the grid network infrastructure is so expensive and inefficient.
The Proton Flow battery from RMIT
http://www.gizmag.com/proton-flow-battery-hydrogen-electricity-rmit/30818/
Non flammable Li-ion
https://uncnews.unc.edu/2014/02/10/researchers-build-nonflammable-lithium-ion-battery/
"maybe they will get efficient enough to stick in everyone's closet next to the water heater or something instead of just grid scale"
Already doing it in NZ.
The SunGenie cabinet (similar in size to an external gas hot water cylinder) is 185cm high, 86cm wide and 36cm deep. It contains a 12.3kWh Lithium-ion battery pack, an AC/DC inverter/charge controller, a solar charger and a PC monitoring gateway. The SunGenie Cabinet can go outside your house or inside (e.g. in a garage).
Baldrick said:
China has gained the mining rights to the largest reserves in Afghanistan and are transporting it back to China across their common border.
they got it all sorted, without firing a single shot...
Seems there is a few km shared border.
Thought the lithium paradise is somewhere in South America?
Rockabye, maybe dual purpose would work like these folk use their Prius ? http://www.aprs.org/FD-Prius-Power.html
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/can-a-toyota-prius-power-a-house/
If the advertising is true this is pretty amazing advance...
http://powerjapanplus.com/about/news.html
Until I can see the chemistry of the battery referenced in the last post I can only think of it as being snake oil.
The only details given are that both electrodes are made of carbon and that it is even 'organic carbon' (made of cotton).
Chemical batteries need to reversibly oxidize and reduce at least one of the components. If you oxidize carbon, you cannot convert it back into solid black carbon again, at least not at ambient temperatures. So there must be another ingredient (like Li/Li+ in the Li battery or Br2/HBr in the bromine battery. - However nothing is mentioned.
'organic carbon' sounds just like a marketing spin. If you convert cotton into black carbon everything 'organic' is gone in the processing which is usually a very high temperature treatment under exclusion of oxygen.
Buyer beware!
I agree sun2 it all sounds like spin, but if you follow the links to the associated university (Kyushu) and then search around you'll find some interesting explanation of the chemistry - in a mixture of Eng and Jap. Yes it does use Li in the electrolyte. e.g.
I'm not saying its all true/accurate but there appears to be something behind it and not just some rogue trying to get investment capital.
Ok, so it may just be an improved Li battery after all. I hate it when journalists don't understand the concept and create their own rogue spin.
electrodes from cotton? needs a felt 1000L of water per 10g to produce, what about other fibers, like, hemp? That hemp, whiches oil only in Australia is not for human consumption (refer yesterdays landline on ABC)
GE Durathon batteries making headway.
How about a nuclear battery. Sounds scary!
Wow, wouldn't this be awesome...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141013090449.htm
Car batteries that use O2 from the air:
http://www.21stcentech.com/aluminum-air-battery-powered-car-travels-1800-kilometers-recharge/
here's another article about improved Li-ion batteries
http://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/new-advanced-lithiumion-battery-tech-could-revolutionise-electric-vehicles-and-smartphones/story-fn6vihic-1227090950619
I've been trying to source batteries. For 10 different installs. I found the lithium to be 300% the price of traditional AGM/gel. After taking into account the 80% you can drain from lithium and the 20% you can drain from others.
Large battery suppliers are not selling lithium for off-grid. yet....
Natimuk Solar said:
Large battery suppliers are not selling lithium for off-grid. yet....
But some of us source LiFePO4 cells and install them for off-grid. I certainly have but I have not found them to anything like 300% more expensive when comparing useable kWh's between them and good Solar PB cells. Yes they are more and recently the drop in the Aus dollar driven the price up, somewhat, PB has also gone up as well.
I was quoted $60000 for a 500ah LiFePO4 48volt bank. At All Energy last week. A 1750ah gel/agm bank was around $25000.
Where did you buy your batteries?
Natimuk Solar said:
Where did you buy your batteries?
I've sent you a PM about the supplier. I added a general rundown on whats required to use them and expect a decent result, if you are to use them.
I too have also found that for some reason some people think because they LiFePO4 cells all nicely packed in a metal box they deserved to charge an insane price. Done some negotiation with a couple of potential Chinese suppliers while I made some headway it is hard to convince them, that they will not sell them readily while trying for an over inflated price.
However I have also been discussing with a local wholesale business that has excellent contacts in China, that may well bear very good results, given time. May well have a winner for supply of cells, one can only hope
hmm, not read about these batteries before and now I see the former internode founder intends taking his entire business site off grid (eventually).
Wikipedia list some interesting requirements (last three)
The primary features of the zinc bromine battery are:
-High energy density relative to lead–acid batteries
-100% depth of discharge capability on a daily basis[2]
-High cycle life of > 2,000 cycles at 100% depth of discharge, at which point the battery can be serviced to increase cycle life to over 3,500 cycles[citation needed]
-No shelf life limitations as zinc–bromine batteries are non-perishable, unlike lead–acid and lithium-ion batteries, for example.[2]
-Scalable capacities from 10 kW·h (0.036 GJ) to over 500 kW·h (1.8 GJ) systems
-The ability to store energy from any electricity generating source
-The need to be fully discharged every few days to prevent zinc dendrites that can puncture the separator[2]
-The need every 1-4 cycles to short the terminals across a low impedance shunt while running the electrolyte pump, to fully remove zinc from battery plates[2]
-Low areal power (<0.2 W/cm2) during both charge and discharge which translates into a high cost of power.
I don't know that they will be all that suitable for domestic use, I think there way too complex and have too many moving parts providing a "ready to fail" battery so to speak, I'll stick to LiFePO4 and PB for the moment. Maybe in the future molten salt and liquid metal might be good options however they have drawbacks. I don't think "molten xxxxx" will scale down to off-grid and grid-hybrid systems very well or liquid pumped batteries either.
Australia continues to innovate despite the government. http://reneweconomy.com.au/2015/the-ev-revolution-is-coming-charged-by-australian-technology-19884
Aluminium battery advances...
http://news.stanford.edu/pr/2015/pr-aluminum-ion-battery-033115.html
Super capacitor with battery properties.
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/14/4233.abstract
An eco competitor to litium batteries now on the market in Australia.